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  • add radiators for my basement

    I am thinking add few radiators into the existing monoflo system for my basement (not heated now). I will use monoflo tee or venturi tee on both supply and return side. The minimum distance between the supply and return tees will be bigger than 18". I am thinking use ball valve to turn on or turn off those basement radiator because nobody down there most of time. My gas heating system is 2yrs old and the plumber was informed that one more floor heating will be added to the system later then. So we can assume the existing system's setting can handle new heating equipment.

    My questions are these:

    1. if we turn off the new added radiators, it will not affect other first floor radiators to work properly? I read that unused radiators or branches in the monoflo system should be connected (means supply and return connected directly with no radiator in between.), that mean there must be some big impact to the rest of the system if they are not connected. if I just cut the flow with ball valve, that means it is not connected.

    2. if above is my misunderstanding what I have read, one ball valve or two valves for one radiator? maybe two, in case the radiator needs to be take off, right?

    thanks,

  • #2
    Re: add radiators for my basement

    Originally posted by thisnewowner View Post
    I am thinking add few radiators into the existing monoflo system for my basement (not heated now). I will use monoflo tee or venturi tee on both supply and return side. The minimum distance between the supply and return tees will be bigger than 18". I am thinking use ball valve to turn on or turn off those basement radiator because nobody down there most of time. My gas heating system is 2yrs old and the plumber was informed that one more floor heating will be added to the system later then. So we can assume the existing system's setting can handle new heating equipment.

    My questions are these:

    1. if we turn off the new added radiators, it will not affect other first floor radiators to work properly? I read that unused radiators or branches in the monoflo system should be connected (means supply and return connected directly with no radiator in between.), that mean there must be some big impact to the rest of the system if they are not connected. if I just cut the flow with ball valve, that means it is not connected.

    2. if above is my misunderstanding what I have read, one ball valve or two valves for one radiator? maybe two, in case the radiator needs to be take off, right?

    thanks,
    If you add a basement loop/zone/whatever...you should install 3 way zone valves as it will bypass the radiators when it's not calling for heat. If you just simply shut the valves off, it will affect the flow, which will affect the way the system heats. I never had to install 3 way zone valves, but I know darn well they make them for these instances.

    You will also have to install the "supply" monoflow tee backwards for the basement loop since hot water is hard to push downward in these systems.

    One pipe systems is old technology, and rarely seen in our area anymore. If it were me, I would rip those radiators out and install baseboard through out, and zone the whole house for maximum heat efficiency. But that would be an expensive proposition.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: add radiators for my basement

      they are baseboard or radiator? I have two taller one and others are the longer one. what's the difference between baseboard and radiator? I was thinking they are the same.
      Attached Files

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      • #4
        Re: add radiators for my basement

        Originally posted by Flux View Post
        One pipe systems is old technology, and rarely seen in our area anymore. If it were me, I would rip those radiators out and install baseboard through out, and zone the whole house for maximum heat efficiency. But that would be an expensive proposition.
        I am interested but don't know why those radiators need to be redo as well? I am ready to finish my basement now. it is a good time to do repiping if necessary.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: add radiators for my basement

          Originally posted by thisnewowner View Post
          they are baseboard or radiator? I have two taller one and others are the longer one. what's the difference between baseboard and radiator? I was thinking they are the same.
          The first picture is cast iron baseboard, the second picture looks like a convector.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: add radiators for my basement

            Originally posted by thisnewowner View Post
            I am interested but don't know why those radiators need to be redo as well? I am ready to finish my basement now. it is a good time to do repiping if necessary.
            You don't have typical radiators like I assumed from your original post.

            The thing I like about Hydronic heating baseboard is I could zone every single room if I wanted too. That way I'm not spending money to heat rooms I'm not even using. It would be damn near impossible for you to do that with the current system you have. Just making an observation and talking out loud.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: add radiators for my basement

              Originally posted by thisnewowner View Post
              they are baseboard or radiator? I have two taller one and others are the longer one. what's the difference between baseboard and radiator? I was thinking they are the same.
              they are close to the same the baseboard is just longer and the radiator just saves room
              is the ceiling in the basement finished with insulation , either way if you put a little heat down there it is not going to cost much more to just keep it on . as long as you dont put to much heat down there and the heat you do put there will also keep i dry and fresh down there . it will also heat the floor for upstairs
              Charlie

              My seek the peek fundraiser page
              http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


              http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

              new work pictures 12/09
              http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: add radiators for my basement

                Originally posted by Flux View Post
                You don't have typical radiators like I assumed from your original post.

                The thing I like about Hydronic heating baseboard is I could zone every single room if I wanted too. That way I'm not spending money to heat rooms I'm not even using. It would be damn near impossible for you to do that with the current system you have. Just making an observation and talking out loud.
                Actually we are thinking to redo the heating system if possible, because:

                1. basement is not finished yet, it is the best time to do so;
                2. we need to replace the electric heating system with water heating in our big family room addition;
                3. we need to add heating onto the entire basement, which is about 1600 sqft;
                4. we only have one zone now, we are thinking to have 3 zones for the entire house: bedrooms, living room & family room, and basement;
                5. Our gas boiler is 2yrs old and is big enough to support those additions;

                We have two options for our above plan:
                1. add another two Monoflo zones;
                2. remove existing Monoflo system and replace it with a 2-pipe direct return system or 2-pipe reverse return system with 3 zones. But we don't want to touch those existing CI baseboard;

                Which way we should go? for option 2, we don't need to change those existing CI baseboard, right?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: add radiators for my basement

                  Originally posted by thisnewowner View Post
                  Actually we are thinking to redo the heating system if possible, because:

                  1. basement is not finished yet, it is the best time to do so;
                  2. we need to replace the electric heating system with water heating in our big family room addition;
                  3. we need to add heating onto the entire basement, which is about 1600 sqft;
                  4. we only have one zone now, we are thinking to have 3 zones for the entire house: bedrooms, living room & family room, and basement;
                  5. Our gas boiler is 2yrs old and is big enough to support those additions;

                  We have two options for our above plan:
                  1. add another two Monoflo zones;
                  2. remove existing Monoflo system and replace it with a 2-pipe direct return system or 2-pipe reverse return system with 3 zones. But we don't want to touch those existing CI baseboard;

                  Which way we should go? for option 2, we don't need to change those existing CI baseboard, right?
                  You don't need to change the existing CI baseboard, but you shouldn't mix CI baseboard with copper tubed/finned hydronic baseboard, because they both heat differently. CI baseboard takes longer to heat, but yet holds it's heat longer than hydronic baseboard. Now Hydronic baseboard heats faster than CI baseboard, but doesn't hold the heat as long. If you're going to stay with CI baseboard, you should continue throughout your house with it. However, you should know that CI baseboard is much more expensive, and they only come in specific lengths. So if you need 11ft to cover a wall, you may only be able to get a combination of 10ft.

                  I'm a big fan of a feed and return for each zone. Like I said earlier, 1 pipe systems is old technology, but that's just my opinion.

                  Keep in mind, if you have a leak with CI baseboard, it's much harder to fix than hydronic baseboard. If your Heating contractor has his wits about him, he CAN pump a container of silver king in the boiler to stop the leak. For me, I would much rather break out my torch and re-solder a joint. I'm just 1 opinion of many, and I'm sure other heating contractors would have a different view, but if it were me, I would be ripping all of that old stuff out and install hydronic baseboard. At least you could re-coup some money with all of that scrap you will have. Just my opinion of course.
                  Last edited by Flux; 01-23-2012, 08:53 AM. Reason: grammar

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: add radiators for my basement

                    i dont like the monoflow systems that is the old way

                    i would either go with

                    a 3 zone system with 3 Circulators im not a fan of zone valves . you can pipe a smaller zone with just a loop in series

                    or go with the 3 zone and do the first supply last return system , i would use this for your cast iron zone because each heater will get hot water at the same time

                    if your cast iron zone is going to stay with the Monoflo tees and it works dont change it but i would put it on its own Circulator
                    Charlie

                    My seek the peek fundraiser page
                    http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                    http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                    new work pictures 12/09
                    http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: add radiators for my basement

                      Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
                      i would either go with

                      a 3 zone system with 3 Circulators im not a fan of zone valves .
                      Hating on zone valves is fighting words charlie! lol

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: add radiators for my basement

                        Give me a circulator over a zone valve anyday

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: add radiators for my basement

                          Finally I found my existing heating system is NOT a monoflo system because there is no monflo tee there even the main line is a loop. maybe I heard wrong or the somebody told me wrong.

                          I also found 2 yrs ago the plumber changed the layout a little (to make the main line a loop) when we converted from oil to gas. Can you guys have a look here (https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/t40173/) to see why he changed? should I ask next plumber to change it back?
                          Last edited by thisnewowner; 01-25-2012, 12:09 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: add radiators for my basement

                            Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                            Give me a circulator over a zone valve anyday
                            After I wrote that above ...I knew you were going to respond opposite of me. lol Ah well...just a personal preference for me.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: add radiators for my basement

                              i dont like zone valved because if you pump goes down you have no heat and also you need to size it big for 3 zones but when your only calling for 1 zone the pump it two big
                              on a 3 pump system if one pump goes down you still have heat on 2 zones
                              Charlie

                              My seek the peek fundraiser page
                              http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                              http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                              new work pictures 12/09
                              http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                              Comment

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