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  • #16
    First find out the leaked parts and replace the stainless steel pipes.
    Last edited by johnwec; 05-27-2018, 01:56 AM.

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    • #17
      was this located outside? It could be a product defect, take picture and send to them

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      • #18
        The problem could be due to air gaps left in the CPVC when it was formed. A thin wall with nothing behind it will depress over time. As far as brittle versus softened, if you run any type of surfactant cleaner through CPVC for a length of time, it will leach the filler (calcium carbonate usually) from the mixture and add the surfactant. I have a 2 inch CPVC end cap in my lab that was in an industrial washer for only 4 months, it is the consistency of a super ball. If you leach the filler out of the pipe due to hard water contact over time, the pipe will become brittle and fall a part.

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        • #19
          One thing in common I?ve found with different types of pvc or cpvc is that its ok for for a few years provided you've installed per manufacturers specifications. It helps to take it seriously and get trained in the proper techniques to cut and weld the pipe. Even if your doing lawn sprinklers the right training will lead to a better result.

          After a few years the pipe starts to get brittle and if there are flaws in the pipe walls or welds, contaminants in the water, sunlight the list goes on, there will be problems.

          CPVC is widely used for residential fire protection, installers love it because its fairly light work. We often get calls to repair it and I don't recommend either type except for lawn sprinklers. Nothing inside.
          Last edited by Mightyservant; 05-30-2018, 09:08 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mightyservant View Post
            One thing in common I?ve found with different types of pvc or cpvc is that its ok for for a few years provided you've installed per manufacturers specifications. It helps to take it seriously and get trained in the proper techniques to cut and weld the pipe. Even if your doing lawn sprinklers the right training will lead to a better result.

            After a few years the pipe starts to get brittle and if there are flaws in the pipe walls or welds, contaminants in the water, sunlight the list goes on, there will be problems.

            CPVC is widely used for residential fire protection, installers love it because its fairly light work. We often get calls to repair it and I don't recommend either type except for lawn sprinklers. Nothing inside.
            So would you recommend something like a PEX flexible pipe instead of the CPVC for residential fire systems?

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            • #21
              I haven't done it, but there is a PEX system that is incorporated with the domestic potable water supply system. Basically it's fire sprinkler heads that tee into the PEX piping for your sinks, toilets, showers and is always being used.not dead ended or stale water.

              Don't know the exact code to it, but it sure sounds like a winner for cost and installation ease. As long as the drywall protects the PEX it should help extinguish a fire before it burns through.

              Pretty sure it's a plumbers install with the proper training.

              Rick.
              phoebe it is

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              • #22
                It likely is, even residential sprinklers is a separate craft although we do it from time to time in high end homes (bldg's really). The idea behind it (cross link PEX wirsbo) is really good. The problem putting it into practice.

                All modern fire protection systems are engineered usually to use the smallest possible size of pipe, fittings, and accesories in order to reduce the material and labor cost. Residential subcontractors seldom coordinate work which is very important in order to design the systems to work as calculated. So if a beam was missed, added and now it snowballs into the HVAC wiping out elevations for pipe to go through it starts to change everything.

                This may or may not affect the hydraulics but the problem is the fire inspectors generally want to see the installation more or less match the design. Some fire Marshalls will not accept any changes other wIll accept minor changes (subjective).

                If if it was my house I would install copper sweat, PEX, galvanized in that order. I suspect that pex will eventually have issues with contaminants in the water from dopes, oils, water chemistry from the source or uv damage. Plus I think a sweat joint might be more durable in a fire event, certainly a brazed joint would be adequate.

                A lot depends on your customers. One customer in RSF wanted CPVC another wanted black steel (yep) go figure. We do a number of customers homes in black steel but those guys are commercial builders who want things to last a long time. CPVC is just not happening as far as I'm concerned, although we will install it if we must in large homes. We will not do high rise structures with it, to much risk of contaminants. They put that pipe in in all these fancy multi-million dollar summer homes in my neighborhood. It's just a matter of time before something takes a crap.

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                • Bob D.
                  Bob D. commented
                  Editing a comment
                  If you were using copper, would you solder or braze?

              • #23
                Both brazing and soldering are permitted for specific hazards the jist of it is for high fuel loads (hazards) you would braze. For the average home i would solder it.

                A garage or shop with exposed construction should be brazed. If the same were drywalled with type x throughout I feel solder would be adequate.

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                • #24
                  Problem with brazing is that the pipe is now annealed and not as stiff as the original tubing and fittings. Technically the joint is stronger, but the tubing and fitting is like a wet noodle when you apply any force to it. Including something as simple as wrenching in a sprinkler head.

                  Did a ton of brazing on copper up to 6" domestic water. Mainly due to t-drilling the mains. Needed the strength due to the limited socket depth.

                  Rick.
                  phoebe it is

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                  • Mightyservant
                    Mightyservant commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Good point...for those special occasions we often combine pipe lubricant with Teflon tape. Use 3 or 4 turns of Teflon tape (the cheap stuff because it's thinner) then paint some lubricant on it, same kind you'd use for push on joints.

                    It's so slick you can bury a thread so you've got to be careful. It makes lining up things much easier but the downside is a fitting can be easy to turn for years.

                  • Bob D.
                    Bob D. commented
                    Editing a comment
                    T-drills were a PITA, hated them. Worked two jobs where the contractor decided to use the T-drill wherever possible to save money. I think the time lost offset any savings. But whatever.

                  • Mightyservant
                    Mightyservant commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I use to see those getting used a lot for about a decade or so then they sort of faded out. I still see they are available.

                    It just always looked like a lot a work for what what you were getting but I suppose if you did it a lot you'd get fast eventually.
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