Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Power/pull required to split galvanized pipe?

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Power/pull required to split galvanized pipe?

    In my other thread I discussed pulling a poly pipe inside a old galvanized pipe,

    and some posted links to pipe bursting tools, and many are a splitting head, and cable and a cable grip rated to 8000 pounds,

    now curiosity has the best of me, here, if the grip is rated for 8000 pounds, most likely there is some margin in the design so the grip is not being worked at its rated capacity,

    the splitting head does not appear to be much more than just a hollow tapered head with a wing on it that is sharpened, and most likely some what hardened, that does the splitting, the cable goes through the head and is "locked" into the head as the head usually has some attachment to pull the new pipe in,

    IN my experience with working with steel and pipe it would seem like it would take more force to split a galvanized pipe than 8000 pounds, and then how much to split the coupling,
    but it appears as if it must not take as much as I would think it does,

    any one have any idea on what it does take,

    Rick talked about moving the pipe in the ground, and that some what surprised me, as I have steel and wood fence posts in the ground some times less than 2 feet and they some times can not be pulled up with 1000 pound hoist that is on my truck, and at times I have worked the tractor and loader on tractor pulling posts out of the ground, and it has about 5000+ pounds of lift,

    so on a 1 1/2" galvanized steel pipe what would one normally expect to need to pull the splitter head through the pipe? estimated pounds of pull.
    Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
    attributed to Samuel Johnson
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

  • #2
    Re: Power/pull required to split galvanized pipe?

    Now You got Me going. FAb up a spear head,sharpen it, Heat treat it. now I have 20,000 to 100,000 Lb . bottle jacks. Fab or use a bearing press. Now see how much Poop it takes to
    split a short section of pipe N COUPLING , that's in new condition.
    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Power/pull required to split galvanized pipe?

      unlike cast iron or clay pipe, which splits/ burst as it's ductile. malleable steel pipe needs to be sliced open. fittings would be a bit tougher and probably a combination of splitting and slicing.

      now plastic pipe needs to be sliced and if it doesn't slice, you will end up pulling it out as it accordions.

      one of my first pipe bursting jobs over 10 years ago, i had approx. 90' of 4'' styrene area drain pipe to split. all seemed well until i noticed that the styrene was coming up around my chain and pulley assembly and was over 4 layers thick. what a nightmare to slowly cut it off with a sawzall foot by foot while not cutting into my pulling chain.

      so if you get lucky to slice the pipe wide open and the new poly pulled through, you did well. otherwise the pipe will either pull out, cable snap, or come to a stall.

      i know that my bursting system will pull up to 80,000# and something will give. but i doubt you have enough leverage to get into a tug o war much beyond 10,000#. remember my machine is anchored in the ground and is held in place by the dirt ditch that is dug into the ground. the dual hydraulic cylinders are 4'' id each at 3000# pressure.

      it probably would be simpler to dig a fox hole every 50' and jet a new line in with poly. as long as you don't hit rocks, a decent jetter will bore a few feet a minute. my trailer with 4000# 18 gpm will go much quicker. poly then can be slipped in with a rope.

      rick.
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Power/pull required to split galvanized pipe?

        Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
        Now You got Me going. FAb up a spear head,sharpen it, Heat treat it. now I have 20,000 to 100,000 Lb . bottle jacks. Fab or use a bearing press. Now see how much Poop it takes to
        split a short section of pipe N COUPLING , that's in new condition.
        actually I was considering something like that, more for jsut seeing what it would take and how hard it would be,

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        I will dig a trench for the bulk of it,

        But the thought of splitting it was just intriguing, and what type of power it would take,
        I rember a picture of your puller Rick, and that it had double cyclinders and was guessing there 4", (some where in the 30 to 40 ton area, is my figures),
        Thanks for your replies,
        Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
        attributed to Samuel Johnson
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Power/pull required to split galvanized pipe?

          The steel pipe won't split it will pull toward what ever is pulling it. We tried it and the time it took to split (grind) the pipe and NOT hit the cable was crazy but we had to do it because of the concrete over the pipe. I have seen a custom wedge welded to a pipe burster to split the galvy as it gets to the pipe burster, pretty cool but I don't have one or the desire to make one lol. Now on the other hand the pipe pusher that I gave you the link to will push the pipe out while others cut it with out fear of hitting the cable because it's not there. On big jobs for cities I have also seen some very special bursting heads that will cut the pipe but they are for 2" on up and a lot of money. I bought the pow'r mole unit just for doing galvy lines. The one I bought is the PD-4 Pushing Force: 37,714 lbs. @ 3,000 PSI and it does not really even break a sweat on pushing usually 1300lbs to 2000lbs pressure reading.
          Last edited by Cuda; 08-05-2012, 12:02 AM. Reason: more info
          Seattle Drain Service

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Power/pull required to split galvanized pipe?

            Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
            Now You got Me going. FAb up a spear head,sharpen it, Heat treat it. now I have 20,000 to 100,000 Lb . bottle jacks. Fab or use a bearing press. Now see how much Poop it takes to
            split a short section of pipe N COUPLING , that's in new condition.

            but to know how much force it took to split the pipe you would need to measure the pressure in the jack i think then calculate the force (pressure times piston area). you would need a high pressure gauge, maybe 20,000 psi. to be accurate it would need to be of decent size(3" or bigger), not a little peanut gauge (2" and under), or get a digital gauge made for use on hydraulics or isolate the gauge from the process fluid with a diaphragm so you don't contaminate your gauge with hydraulic oil. that is if you want to use the gauge on other fluids later on.

            whyt can't you pull a new line like they do for sprinkler systems? they make attachments for tractors i think that can do this or you can rent a puller. maybe adapt a middle buster.


            Ditch Witch - Vibratory Plow - Walk-Behind Plow, Small Plow - Ditch Witch 410sx

            or will none of these work because of the depth required for your job.
            Last edited by Bob D.; 08-05-2012, 06:28 AM.
            ---------------
            Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
            ---------------
            “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
            ---------
            "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
            ---------
            sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Power/pull required to split galvanized pipe?

              I think I would have problems with pulling the pipe in do the depth, even If I made a ripper when you get down in 36" to 48" of unworked soil (and this year is extremely dry), I would not be able to pull even one shank that deep I am fairly certain , and if I did hit some thing (rock or some old hunk of steel buried it would be hung up) and trying to rip the same trench multiple times is not that easy, (unless it was a vibrating plow)
              Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
              attributed to Samuel Johnson
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

              Comment

              Working...
              X