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  • #16
    Re: Tankless Water Heater

    Originally posted by TPS View Post
    Thanks guys,
    I feel like I have been to a HO school! This has got to be the most informative site on the web. I appreciate the information and will steer away from one for sure. I appreciate the honest, informative and professional opinions. By the way are any of these tankless WH made for an all electric home? Just wondering.
    Thanks again for the great professional and informative information.
    Have a great day,
    TPS
    there are point of use little electric tankless/ instantaneous heaters we use under a bathroom sink for commercial installations. you might be familiar with them at small single sink retail stores. they produce very little hot water and require a tremendous amount of power. they usually require a very restrictive faucet aereator to limit the flow.

    unless you are plugged into a nuclear power plant, a whole house tankless would cause your power meter to spin out of control. the one customer i have with a 1 bathroom small condo had to put a new panel in to handle the heater. it requires 120 amps at 240 volts and you can barely take a shower.

    so the lesser of both evils would be a gas tankless, and you already know our feeling about them

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Tankless Water Heater

      I would like to chime in on this thread and post a different experience. I bought and installed a Bosch Aqastar 240FX (which I believe is the same as a Takagi TK1) in the summer of 2003. It was a DIY install so I can only comment on the cost of the heater - not the labor. The main changes were the increase in gas pipe diameter and the new venting. With virtually no routine maintenance and in daily use the heater is working fine 9 years later and the internal components still look like brand new when I take the cover off.

      I did make allowance for heat exchanger descaling by adding threaded ports in the plumbing to allow me to attach a descaling assembly I made out of tubing and a drill pump but I only did it until I installed a wholehouse water softener. That said it is probably due for a descaling soon but I have not done one in several years. As far as maintenance I have no problem doing the repairs myself if something broke down - the bigger question for me is are parts still available for this as I don't think the model is made anymore.

      I agree that I don't see any cost benefits in tankless - not sure why they are so high priced plus the extra work needed to install one. If anything it will probably cost more money overall than a tank.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Tankless Water Heater

        Times are changing though
        Just saw a Navien prototype, reps say will be available in 2-3 months
        199,000 btu runs on 1/2" gas line and vented with 2"PVC up to 60'?
        Had a circ in it too

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Tankless Water Heater

          It's all about rise, lower incoming temps only slows flow those months not reduce temp. Even at a 80 degree rise requirement how many standard homes need more than 4.25 GPM at 120 degree outlet temps? That's at least 5 GPM mixed. Remember it's endless, no race to get the hot shower before it runs out.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Tankless Water Heater

            Early on when tankless heaters were just starting to get popular, I had a customer who wanted one as he insisted that his gas bill would be reduced because there was no pilot light. Several months after it's installation he called me to complain that his gas bill was off the charts. We discovered that his teenage children found that the advertising of these heaters was true and that it would never run out of hot water. These kids were taking 45 minute showers and no one was home to tell them to get out. We put in low flow shower heads to help the situation.
            On another note, out here in earthquake country its always nice to have an emergency 40 or 50 gallons of drinking water available from a tank type heater. I imagine that your only going to get a glass of water out of a tankless should the big one hit.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Tankless Water Heater

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              tomorrow i have a 34 month old noritz condensing tankless to replace a copper internal drain line assembly. not even a 3 year old heater has failed and the heater was properly flushed 12 months ago.

              noritz mailed them the part the next day for free. but my labor is not covered.

              rick.
              so today went well. noritz stepped up and sent the parts needed along with a new wire harness that was not needed in a day. of course the factory shop is only 50 miles away and the customer took care of the phone call and professional photos of the leak and parts link.

              the repair was pretty straight forward with components easily removed to access the 1/4'' drain line. the replacement part is now stainless steel.

              here are my cell phone photos of the unit/ repair.

              rick.



              the stainless commercial heater.



              the 1/4' copper drain is located between the burner and power board to the rear.



              the heater is a maze of well labeled wires/ harness. easily accessed to get to the leaking tube.



              the removed 1/4'' drain line with electrical tape the owner tried to apply to limit the spray.



              power board easily accessed with 2 phillip screws.



              new 1/4'' stainless drain installed and all put back. under 15 miutes from start to finish. but remember this heater is less than 3 years old and the owner ordered all the proper parts before i showed up. still have to give credit to noritz for making it easily accessed and having the parts in stock for next day delivery.

              rick.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 08-28-2012, 12:53 AM.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Tankless Water Heater

                That wiring looks a bit of a mess - not the cleanest design. The internals of my heater is a lot better in that respect.

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                • #23
                  Re: Tankless Water Heater

                  So far, every warranty call that I have done has resulted in a next day delivery by 10:00 am.....even on a Saturday.
                  AllurePlumbing.com
                  • leak detection
                  • drain cleaning
                  • utility locating
                  • conductor fault locating
                  • and other specialties.

                  Greensboro NC, Winston-Salem NC, High Point NC, Thomasville NC, Kernersville NC

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Tankless Water Heater

                    Originally posted by Lee H View Post
                    Times are changing though
                    Just saw a Navien prototype, reps say will be available in 2-3 months
                    199,000 btu runs on 1/2" gas line and vented with 2"PVC up to 60'?
                    Had a circ in it too
                    I USED to install tankless (for over a decade), Now All I want to do is melt them down and turn them into a tank. Navien is a JOKE! I have 4 installed and I go back on them all of time. I made a rep so mad, that he gave the homeowner's his cell phone, and they drove him so crazy that he gave them a brand new unit. He went out only 4 times. I had been out 15 times!, and they wouldn't do crap, except some guy on the east coast tell me that my Gas line was too small. I told him, I would send him a gas chart drawing, and he asked what that was. I still work on Tankless (there is good money in the repair side of it). Working on a Takagi tomorrow 4 hours to put in a $4 dollar part
                    "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

                    Comment

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