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What the...?

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  • What the...?

    Ok, I've been a plumber for quite a few years now, licensed, and out on my own for 4 years. Today I saw something I have NEVER seen before... The home owner has a custom cabinet company come in and build, on site a complete set of cabinets, they are beautiful, he also has an independent counter top company from Miami come in and install new granite counter top, with an under mounted S.S. twin sink. Total measurement from counter top to bottom of sink is 10 inches. The problem is... The cabinet guys pinned and glued the cabinets in place, the counter guys epoxied the S.S. sink under the counter top, and also epoxied over the 4 sink mounts they installed. The waste arm is 22 inches above finished floor, the S.S. sink bottom is 20 inches from finished floor. How does the sink drain, when the trap adaptor is 2 inches above the bottom of the sink? Oh, and there is a dishwasher, so the dishwasher tail piece puts the center outlet drain system even lower than the sink bottom... homeowner is scratchin his head, and, I hate to say it, but deep down inside, I'm laffin' my a*s off. Any suggestions? This is a house that was built here in the Keys in 1957, solid concrete walls, and copper waste arms, to Cast Iron drain system. the trap adaptor at the waste arm is 3 feet from the cast iron stack, and all behind the permenantly installed cabinets... and in a poured concrete wall...
    Last edited by Tropic Plumber; 02-10-2013, 12:35 PM.

  • #2
    Re: What the...?

    Though wall surgery is always best done before the cabinets go in, it's still an option. It's just makes a mess (and an unnecessary expense) at this point in the game.

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    • #3
      Re: What the...?

      I have to agree on the wall surgery, the problem is the cabinets are Permenantly installed with liquid nail, and pins, so it would entail tearing up the cabinets, the counter was installed using liquid nail also, on each and every area that the top sits on the cabinets... The home owner has $13,000 invested in this remodel. I told him the only way to drain the sink was wall surgery and he sez..."There's gotta be a better way..."
      Last edited by Tropic Plumber; 02-10-2013, 12:55 PM.

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      • #4
        Re: What the...?

        I just got off the phone with the homeowner... He wants to know if there is some kind of tank, with a pump, that can be installed under the sink...
        Drain goes into tank, pump pushes it up to waste arm. I have NEVER seen anything like this... Honestly, any suggestions from you guys will be greatly appreciated... I'm stumped. There is no garbage disposal, only a dishwasher as an add on to the drain system, so why wouldn't a tanked pump work?

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        • #5
          Re: What the...?

          Sure, Saniflo makes them. Fits right under the sink.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What the...?

            They make a product callled the #10 Sanvite gray water pump specifically for your application.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What the...?

              There isn't a "better way" than gravity, but the pump is an option.

              Sometimes instead of putting the pipe in the wall, you cut out the back of the cabinet where the santee is and install a lower fitting and run the rest of the drain outside of the wall. I know you said this is a poured wall, so a chipping hammer is the only way to get in.

              The back of the cabinet can be patched and you'll lose a bit of cabinet storage space, but you save on buying a pump, running electric and the cost of maintenance.

              I had one of these recently where the customers new deep sinks were too deep for the disposal and the sink drain was drilled through four 2x4s studs. I installed a lower fitting in the wall and ran the new drain along the back inside of the cabinet.

              Considering what this guy spent on cabinets, he shouldn't be too concerned on what the plumbing costs are.

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              • #8
                Re: What the...?

                Cut out the back of the cabinet and do what you have to do to lower the waste. Then, put in backing if studs aren't convenient, replace the gyp board, run sleepers the thickness of the old cabinet back and have the cabinet maker fab an 1/4" sheet of the appropriate material to fit the back of the cabinet completely. To the average HO it will look as good as it was before surgery. And, best of all, the plumbing won't be compromised.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What the...?

                  Slab home, I presume? The only thing that comes to mind is a more shallow sink (or maybe some pre-planning on the contractors' part). I've seen this a lot w/ remodelers not considering plumbing in their design plans. Luckily around here lots of homes are on crawl spaces so we bypass the wall and use AAV's. I would tell the home owner to get the epoxy-happy nitwits back out to remove and install a more shallow sink.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What the...?

                    Saniflo sucks.

                    If a deeper trap seal isn't possible, and you're on a slab, you're gonna have to open the wall.

                    Who in their right mind wants a sewage pump on their kitchen sink?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What the...?

                      Liberty Pumps : Drain Pumps
                      This guy right here. I installed one under a beverage bar in a gas station 3 years ago, it seems to be holding up well
                      No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

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                      • #12
                        Re: What the...?

                        Cut the wall and get it over with
                        Counter top guys never ! think about the drain height
                        they still wouldn't know if you told them

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                        • #13
                          Re: What the...?

                          Ok... 8pm the homeowner calls, he has talked to a plumbing contractor in Chicago, where he is an attorney, and sez he has ordered the Liberty Pump... And a 6 gallon tank he sez is suitable. He will NOT agree to opening the wall. Totally out of the question... It's his money, and his house, so he gets what he wants, right? I just faxed him an agreeement, I will NOT warranty anything other than standard drain system, I will NOT be responsible for any damage that may be caused by this installation. he said he paid $496,000 for a place to fish out of 2 weeks outta the year, and it should work just fine. OK... Like I said before, it's his money, and his house, so he gets a grey water pump under his sink.

                          I want to thank all of you guys for your input on this situation, all the info provided was good, not a buncha B.S. and nobody laughed, that was cool... Thanks again.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What the...?

                            Sounds like someone has a big problem . Only a fool would make it HIS !
                            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What the...?

                              What's on the back side of the wall.

                              Can't the work be done from the other side and use the upper san tee as a future c/o.

                              Wall shouldn't be more than 6" thick.

                              How are you going to vent that pump box?

                              Rick.
                              phoebe it is

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