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  • Stay at home mom- help

    Okay, Im sure Im not gonna know all the sufficient info needed to get the best advice but I will try to be as descriptive as possible. I live in a newer concrete block construction house with 21/2 baths- master bath has large garden tub with typical moen faucet- hot on left cold on right and showers have fancier single lever with glass circlular backing- up is on and right is hot and cold is left dual unit shower. Guest bath has delta turn lever with 12 o clock is mix of hot and cold and 3 o clock is off and 9 o clock is all hot. Kitchen is moen with single lever- up is on and up and over right is cold, left is hot. Water heater (i think) is tankless eco smart with temp set at 140. PROBLEM: sporadic temps - kitchen sink- works great- super hot and consistent. Guest bath- water goes from hot to cold. Master bath- tub with only hot water side turned on only gets slightly hot for a few seconds then goes to luke warm- even cold. Master bath showers get somewhat hot when turned to all hot and is not consistent nor hot enough for my liking- not even close to temp water is in kitchen. The guest bath is only a few feet in distance to kitchen sink and all the fixtures are different leading me to believe its not likely the fixture itself or the heater since its doing great for the kitchen- WHAT COULD THIS BE??? Thanks!!

  • #2
    Re: Stay at home mom- help

    Since tankless heaters are rated by the flow of water that is delivered in gallons per minute,
    it could be that yours is undersized. A garden tub faucet delivers way more water per minute
    than a sink faucet which could be why there is so much difference in performance.
    Has it always performed like you describe?
    If not, then the unit may need to be flushed.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Stay at home mom- help

      Most likely its the tankless heater but one of those Moen valves could be crossing water over.
      Do you ever get warm water out of a cold faucet?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Stay at home mom- help

        Set the heater to 120 first off. This should solve your issue.

        Common rookie mistake.
        Last edited by Gettinit; 02-21-2013, 10:24 AM.
        AllurePlumbing.com
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        • #5
          Re: Stay at home mom- help

          Have the same thing going on now at a 6 bathroom house with dual tank heaters even a couple outside hosebibbs are hot. There are 3 mixing valves in the house and ive isolated it to 1 hans grohe shower valve. Its amazing that the bad shower doesn't show an issue when run. Its the kitchen at the other side of the house along with an isolated hose bibb.

          Problem is there are no isolation stops for the kids shower and I can't test it to isolate that fixture. Its a tempress valve.

          So in your case, try isolating the mixing valves first. The moen brass cartridges can mix when off. The newer style plastic can't. But depending on your balancing spools in the showers, they might.

          Not a simple 1 to isolate without shut offs. A plumber with an infrared camera might be able to spot the cross over at the problem fixture.

          Rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Stay at home mom- help

            The largest model, Eco27, only provides 4.8 gallons per minute in your area of Florida. Also, according to the website, the Eco27 is electric. (A gas model should be released sometime in March 2013.) According to the website parts diagrams there is no flow restricting device to force something close to 4.8 gallons per minute. Some of your faucets will easily outrun the unit. Be aware also, that 4.8 is a number reached in a lab and will rarely be seen in real life application.

            Research on the PSL City water treatment facility site shows that you have a moderately hard blended water from 2 aquifers. They are treated by softening/filtering and by RO then blended, pH adjusted, and mixed with additives. Heating water is one of the best ways to soften water. Electric heating of water is one of the easiest ways to soften it. You have both in one unit. If the unit came set at 140 degrees it is an indication it may be too small for the application. Setting it high is a 'fix' because most people don't run a pure flow of HOT. They mix with cold. Having a much higher HOT means less hot usage and more cold usage, and less flow through the unit.

            What I suggest (you will need a plumber):

            - install a flow restrictor designed for the pressure your house has. (it can be tested with a non-flow restricted faucet like the tub, a bucket of fixed size, and a stop watch)
            - have the water hardness tested. if above 3 grains hardness, install a softener system
            - have the unit flushed. replace the elements if needed
            - set the unit at no more than 125 degrees. some dishwashers works best at this temperature
            - check for bad cartridges or other cross-overs

            If the unit is undersized you may need to replace it with a larger one or add an additional tankless in series.

            The Eco27 above was used as an example. There are other models, built similarly. You didnt specify your model.
            Last edited by Plumber Punky; 02-21-2013, 11:14 AM. Reason: typo
            ~~

            ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

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            • #7
              Re: Stay at home mom- help

              This could go on for a while with what it could be as everyone has seen the above issues and more. Change the temp first to rule it out since you can do it without having to call someone. Then it may be sandwiching or you may be going full on hot to get it their faster then having to back off. While doing this the time needed to sense the difference is not immediate. You may be cutting it down to far thus shutting it down. Blah, blah, blah. Change the temp then call a plumber to get to the root of your problem if you still have one.
              AllurePlumbing.com
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              Greensboro NC, Winston-Salem NC, High Point NC, Thomasville NC, Kernersville NC

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              • #8
                Re: Stay at home mom- help

                Have the anti-scald limiters been adjusted on any of the valves in question?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Stay at home mom- help

                  At this point, you need to post the exact model number of your heater. Tank or tankless, gas or electric? That will eliminate lots of guessing.

                  Rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Stay at home mom- help

                    Sorry everyone- I thought I would get an email if someone responded so I didnt know everyone was trying to help me! Not sure on the model- looking at the side of the unit where the outlet is it says model ECO11. I went ahead and adjusted temp to 125 bc thats an easy thing to try right this minute. How long should I wait to test it out?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Stay at home mom- help

                      Originally posted by Firegirl12 View Post
                      Sorry everyone- I thought I would get an email if someone responded so I didnt know everyone was trying to help me! Not sure on the model- looking at the side of the unit where the outlet is it says model ECO11. I went ahead and adjusted temp to 125 bc thats an easy thing to try right this minute. How long should I wait to test it out?
                      Pretty much immediately. It is an electric modulating tankless heater. It is very inexpensive and I have not touched one of these. If it doesn't work you need to get all of the paperwork on it before calling someone out.

                      http://www.ecosmartus.com/
                      Last edited by Gettinit; 02-21-2013, 11:46 PM.
                      AllurePlumbing.com
                      • leak detection
                      • drain cleaning
                      • utility locating
                      • conductor fault locating
                      • and other specialties.

                      Greensboro NC, Winston-Salem NC, High Point NC, Thomasville NC, Kernersville NC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Stay at home mom- help

                        If someone wants to flush it out, do not let them put chemicals in it. The usual chemicals for many tankless heaters are compatible with copper heat exchangers. Evidently, yours is stainless steel and it will harm your heater.

                        http://www.ecosmartus.com/SiteAssets...yer%208-27.pdf If you have 80F cold water to the heater you can only hope for 3 gallons per minute. 55F is normal here and that will only run one faucet.

                        You may be better off replacing it with a better option rather than repairing yours if the temperature setting didn't work. Refer back to Punky's post.
                        AllurePlumbing.com
                        • leak detection
                        • drain cleaning
                        • utility locating
                        • conductor fault locating
                        • and other specialties.

                        Greensboro NC, Winston-Salem NC, High Point NC, Thomasville NC, Kernersville NC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Stay at home mom- help

                          Not sure, if I saw someone say this or not, but on the tub that you were opening up and getting cold water through the hot, you can try to open it about a 1/4 of the way open and see if it maintains temperature. As stated earlier, most tankless have a limit. Electric Tankless are known for inconsistent temperatures. I have put only a few electrics in, and I wasn't very happy with the results. I would get at least 3 bids for installing a tanked water heater if you have the room. It could also be cartridges leaking by, As stated above, it is very difficult to diagnosis this problem. I usually end up just changing all of the cartridges that can cause mixing to eliminate them as a problem before going further.
                          "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

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                          • #14
                            Re: Stay at home mom- help

                            Anti scald limiters?? How and where do I find and check these??

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Stay at home mom- help

                              The Eco11 is rated for 1.97 gallons per minute with a set temperature of 105 degrees. At anything above 105 degrees, the gallons per minute will decrease. It has an MSRP of $269. This unit is horribly undersized for any kind of normal household usage.

                              All information was taken from the manufacturer's website.

                              If you really do want a tankless unit I suggest the largest one they make or a well known manufacturer's gas/lp unit. Most of the plumbers here have had bad experiences with tankless but can make recommendations of some durable brands.

                              Edit: the spec sheet from the website that has the flow rates, etc. for your unit:

                              http://www.ecosmartus.com/SiteAssets...yer%208-27.pdf
                              Last edited by Plumber Punky; 02-22-2013, 12:38 PM.
                              ~~

                              ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

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