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  • shower valve troubles

    My sister and brother in law recently purchased a house that was for closed on and no help in getting much of the details on the old house or the problems.
    Shower problem

    The shower has shower heads that spray out from the walls and from near the ceiling, so it has a control to control what heads are spraying and a valve for the hot and cold water control

    The water shut off valve is seized only cold water comes out the various heads.
    I tried to undo the set screw to take valve off but is corroded by hard water strains etc, then I drilled it out and still not get it out . Turns out the handle has a cap on it and I cannot remove the cap, hard water stains and it is corroded, under cap according to Moen there are 2 screws that have to be removed.
    Any ideas on how to remove that Cap from end of valve to access the screws?
    I searched on moen.ca for the model but could not find it. will post it later but looking for ideas before i use a dremel and cut off disk to remove it? thanks

  • #2
    Re: shower valve troubles

    Photos will help.

    Try clr or vinegar and allow to soak on handle trim. Even if you need to use a ziplock bag to hold the solution on the handle.

    Rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: shower valve troubles

      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
      Photos will help.

      Try clr or vinegar and allow to soak on handle trim. Even if you need to use a ziplock bag to hold the solution on the handle.

      Rick.
      Fantastic, another good old fashioned of sort recommendation. Thanks Rick. (BTW this is serious not taking the infamous Aussie P155.....!!!!!!!)

      Also as Rick said photos tell us more than you can begin to think.
      Last edited by Cleanmen2; 07-07-2013, 06:56 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: shower valve troubles

        Moen metal lever type handles are secured with either an allen head set screw
        recessed on the bottom side of the handle, or a phillips head screw under the
        index button. Never seen both together. If there is an index button, it should
        be held on with friction and should pry right off. If you drilled out the set screw
        the entire screw must be removed, not just the head. Since you have a body spray
        system, I would guess the trim is Kingsley or maybe Brantford style. One pic will tell the story.
        BTW, once you get it apart the balancing spool in the cartridge is stuck.
        A common problem with Moen positemp when infrequently used.
        The two screws Moen refers to are the ones holding on the trim plate.
        Last edited by Big Jim; 07-07-2013, 08:05 AM.

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        • #5
          Re: shower valve troubles

          moen.ca/shared/docs/exploded-parts-views/253pt.pdf
          that is the link to the parts pic
          cannot pictures of the shower today but will post soon

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: shower valve troubles

            Well, hell. Forget everything I said.
            The trim is Asceri, and the cartridges are not positemp.
            The two screws Moen refers to can be seen in the diagram.
            Not at all what I expected.
            Once the set screw (13903) is completely removed, the handle should come off.
            Maybe not easily, but I don't see anything else securing the handle.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: shower valve troubles

              I tried to pull the cap off the handle and it would not move. was worried I would pull too hard and something would snap off inside.
              they are doing the vinegar thing and see what happens.
              should I just replace the valve and put it all back together or would vinegar unseize the hot water side of the valve?


              Not a plumber I just play one on weekends for family and friends.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: shower valve troubles

                The balancing spool inside the cartridge is stuck. Its a little piston that floats inside the middle of the stem/ cartridge about 5/16" in diameter and either has dirt or mineral buildup. Pretty simple fix, but you need to get the handle off to get the cartridge out.

                Another option is to take a rubber or non maring hammer and tap, tap hard on the handle to try and jar the piston free. It's worked for me on new constuction projects that sat idle for some time from ruff to move in.

                Rick.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: shower valve troubles

                  Since this is a Moentrol valve and not a positemp,
                  the balancing spool is separate from the cartridge.
                  It is located just to left of center behind a screw cap
                  with a screwdriver slot. Trim plate will need to be removed.
                  Hope there is enough cut out to see it once trim is off.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: shower valve troubles

                    Jim is right. The moentrol valve uses a part #1423 balancing spool. Typically these can be cleaned out and serviced. But you need a proper size large flat head screwdriver and a good grip to unscrew the spool. You could also try to jar the spool with a hammer and free it up as long as it's not debris lodged in the ports. Seen copper reams and wood chips lodged there.

                    The end cap can also be pried off and the piston pulled out of the barrel. If you do need a new one be cautious where you buy. Factory moen spools vary in price from 37.33 to 239.26 on amazon for the same factory part. Moen might also send you one if you call.

                    But you need to get the handle off to get to the valve body. Remember there is still a transfer cartridge and a volume, temperature cartridge behind the stems if you drill and damage them. The transfer cartridge is a little more odd ball to find. The 1225 volume cartridge is a very common part and should also be changed to prevent drips. Also as you now know, grease up the handle broach/flats and the allen screws for the next guy

                    Rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment

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