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Proper way to seal a toilet flange extender/spacer

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  • #16
    Re: Proper way to seal a toilet flange extender/spacer

    Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
    Will , Are those plastic hold down bolts in Your picture ?

    Yes I switched to those Sioux Chef bolts about a year ago and have had zero issues. I chaulk the whole base of the toilet bowl though to ever keep it from rocking. In fact my toilets don't rock even without bolts once chaulk sets....
    Will Rogers Plumbing
    Moore, Oklahoma
    (
    405) 323-2852

    "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

    "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



    www.willrogersplumbing.com
    http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

    "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Proper way to seal a toilet flange extender/spacer

      I level with plastic shims then caulk. Caulk is code here .
      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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      • #18
        Re: Proper way to seal a toilet flange extender/spacer

        Originally posted by Will Rogers Plumbing View Post
        Yes I switched to those Sioux Chef bolts about a year ago and have had zero issues. I chaulk the whole base of the toilet bowl though to ever keep it from rocking. In fact my toilets don't rock even without bolts once chaulk sets....

        Sane here
        Will Rogers Plumbing
        Moore, Oklahoma
        (
        405) 323-2852

        "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

        "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



        www.willrogersplumbing.com
        http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

        "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Proper way to seal a toilet flange extender/spacer

          Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
          Do they make reduced spacers for plumber 26 ??????
          ???

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Proper way to seal a toilet flange extender/spacer

            Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
            I also put a putty ring around the base of the water closet. After the bowl is secure, I trim the putty, then run a bead of caulk.

            Why not just caulk the base of the toilet? What advantage does the putty under the bowl give? (not talking about the seal for the flange, just the putty under the the base of the bowl.)
            Will Rogers Plumbing
            Moore, Oklahoma
            (
            405) 323-2852

            "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

            "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



            www.willrogersplumbing.com
            http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

            "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Proper way to seal a toilet flange extender/spacer

              Putty? I would never use this method. Sounds to me like someone ran out wax rings and decided to use what they had. Putty will dry and crack. We run across a lot of white spacers that plumbers try to seal with silicone down on top of the flange. They leak after about 3 years. Big mess. I recommend raising the flange to above the floor and screwing it down with corrosion resistant screws. Those holes in around the ring are not there for looks. As for the spacers, I don't see a good way to attach them to flange.

              Oatey is kind of vague on the installation of spacers. They don't say how to attach it to existing flange:
              DIRECTIONS FOR USE
              Stack rings (maximum of 3) onto existing closet flange ring to accommodate desired height. Rings can be solvent welded together on the horizontal surface using PVC solvent cement or can be secured using mechanical means.
              "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

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              • #22
                Re: Proper way to seal a toilet flange extender/spacer

                I used to stack waxes, but have had them leak when main line stoppage, or when customer uses plunger. I agree that most of the time it’s because the genius—and there are tens of thousands of them—didn’t anchor the flange, and wasn’t very good at installing shims either. But I do anchor the flange, and my toilets don’t rock, and yet they have leaked with mainline stoppage or plunging. Have long wondered why no one produces an 1 ½” or 2” thick wax, but they don’t. flanges here are often ½” below finished floor. A “thick” (1 1/8”) wax isn’t good enough. But recently decided to set a toilet with stacked waxes and then immediately pull it and look at the waxes. I didn’t like the look of it. Wax isn’t very good at compressing wax. What I think basically happens is the top wax stays intact, with nothing more than 70 degree wax pushing against it, and the bottom wax comes apart—moves to the outside. If stacking is a good idea, then someone ought to produce a thicker wax. They would sell the heck out of them. But there is apparently no such thing. Never has been. So don’t ask me to stack waxes when all that someone would have to do is manufacture thicker waxes—I’m just venting—not directing that to anyone in this post.

                So I started using spacers. Bought 10 each of every brand and thickness I could find, to have a variety of hole patterns to choose from. Sometimes maybe two of the holes line up. Often they don’t, so i just use a stainless steel ring on top, to hold the spacer down. Ring secured by the bolts, if nothing else. Can’t just use the metal ring alone because too far out from where the wax needs to be.

                Might try the mineral spirits idea to clean the old wax off. Have been using silicone to seal. Seems to stick better to metal than to plastic. But if others are finding that the silicone doesn’t stay sealed long term, then that’s going to make things interesting. I have wondered if wax under the spacer would be a better seal than silicone. Just seems like the next time someone has to pull toilet, they’re not going to know whether to trust that layer of wax under the spacer, and are then going to have to backtrack, and jacking with removing anchors. Would be nice if the silicone would adhere good. Would be nice if a spacer were permanent.

                Why is the silicone failing?

                I agree that of course the best solution is to yank the flange and start over. But sometimes that’s easy, such as with flange glued inside 4”—perhaps we can forego the code arguments over this. Or cast iron, not too big of a deal to raise. But often it’s flange glued to outside of 3”. Big job. Often it would need to raise further than the pipe would allow without using coupling. Bigger job. Often, there’s no room for a coupling because another fitting is in the way. Now what?

                Cities are partly to blame, because they require the flange be glued before the floor is installed. Thank you, cities. Plumbers and builders are partly to blame, because they ought to allow for the floor thickness anyway. They ought to be secured anyway. Ought to make sure it doesn’t rock anyway. Ought to use actual plastic shims instead of crushed EMT or wood shims. Homeowners partly to blame because they want to remodel cheap, having tile and counter guys do almost all the plumbing now, from the new shower valve on down.

                Never ending stream of calls to reset toilets.

                Putty—I don’t think I can go down that road. i don’t even like putty for basket strainers or tub drains. I would try the rubbery foam gaskets before I would ever try putty.

                If silicone holds a basket strainer indefinitely—and I’ve never seen a siliconed basket strainer leak—then why can’t it hold a toilet flange spacer? Is it the residual wax that wasn’t cleaned off good enough?

                I am envisioning a plastic adapter along the lines of what toto has, that protrudes below finished floor, so can use single wax, anchors to the floor, so don’t have to worry about spacer holes lining up, and which the toilet slips into with a plastic ribbed insert, like toto. Or an extra toilet in the lineup, along with the 10” and the 14”, that has a half inch lower horn, for remodel jobs. They have new construction electrical outlet boxes, and they have remodel boxes. Remodel toilets. Costs $200 extra. Yes, I do realize that’s all ridiculous, but if silicone isn’t going to hold, and if ¾ of all toilet flanges are too low, something needs to give.

                One thing I’m not doing ever again is stacking waxes. Just sell me a thick wax, if that’s what I’m supposed to do. Make it fiber reinforced, if that’s the problem.

                I can’t believe that it might actually be down to putty. I can’t believe that when someone calls, which they do constantly, about toilet leaking at base, that I have to tell them how complicated it might end up being. I don’t think there’s any way I could trust putty. But if you’re getting it to work, then wow—seriously.

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                • #23
                  Re: Proper way to seal a toilet flange extender/spacer

                  The silicone ones that I have seen fail are because silicone doesn't stick well to pvc. If you take silicone and run it around a piece of pipe, let it dry and it see how easy it comes off. It does appear to work for a few years, but I am not ok with a few years. I am building life long customers, and I don't like re doing things every few years. There are few companies that make a thicker wax ring Maxwax® Wax Bowl Ring | Bowl Setting Wax Gaskets & Bolts | Oatey Most of the toilets I run across on the first floor are a 4x3 90, then a 4" PVC pipe with a 4x3 closet flange. Take a sawmill and cut just the flange into strips, then chisel it out. Set the new one at the right height. Here is what I have done for 3" with an over flange: use inside cutter to cut just below flange. Chip out a little concrete around the area, and then cut 3" piping so that it leaves about 2" above 90 with an inside cutter. I then glue a 3" PVC coupling over the 3" pipe, then cut a new piece of 3" and put the flange on top of that. If I don't have room, I will glue another 3" coupling on top of the other, and glue a 4" flange over the outside of the 3" coupling or I will use a pipe removing tool to drill out the old pvc in the fitting. It took a while the first one that I did, but now I have it down pretty quick. In some cases, I have had enough room to put a 4x3 reducer upward, and then use 4" pipe and use a 4x3 flange. Another option, if it is a street 90 with a flange glued on top of it, is to use an inside cutter to cut just the flange off, leaving the hub glued onto the 3' street 90. Then use a 4" coupling on the outside of the 3" hub, Put a new piece of 4" pipe inside the coupling. Cut with an inside cutter or sawzall through piping and sometimes coupling, then glue in a 4x3 flange. Cast iron can be tough, and I have a way to to do that too, but I won't bore you with the details.
                  "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

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                  • #24
                    Re: Proper way to seal a toilet flange extender/spacer

                    I glue my flange extensions here the flanges are abs and the extensions are PVC so primer then transition cement then a final smear of Lexel silicone "drys underwater" and a Sioux chief stainless ring screwed or tap con ed on top and sandwiched between toilet bolts.

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