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  • #31
    Re: Well pump pressure switch

    Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
    Having a check valve on the inlet side of the tank tee will not tell you anything at all that is happening from the check valve all the way back down to the pump.

    So you have check valve at tee on the inlet. Then coming across you might have gauge, pressure valve, pressure switch on a pipe, a boiler drain, center to tank, then outlet. So if you have a small leak from the check valve back to the pump, you may not know it.

    The pump can possibly overcome the leak to satisfy the pressure switch, the switch cuts off, the check valve closes, then the leak continues while showing NOTHING on the gauge and the system appearing to work correctly. Then you use water in the house, hit 30 psi+- and the pump comes on. You'd get a mixture of air & water and may or may not notice depending on depth, use, leak, etc.

    Simply removing this check valve allows you to see what's going on all the way back to the pump on the gauge. Unless you have an unusual depth and length to well this check valve is NOT beneficial and was NOT installed for a reason.
    A check valve @ the Tee will save your pump if you get a leak between the pump & the house.

    Without the check valve your pump will keep cycling & burn up if you get a leak & do not notice it.

    Most people do not notice that their pump keeps coming on & off.

    Heck some people do not know why they have a lake next to their house from a leak.

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    • #32
      Re: Well pump pressure switch

      Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
      Ok just went to bring the tank pressure to 28psi. Turn on the house valve turn the pump on and it took some time to get to 47psi on the gauge. It never got to 50 like it did before. so for the night I cut it back to go off at about 47psi.
      Tomorrow im going to put a gauge on the pump side of the check valve and see what it can get up to. It will also tell me if the check valve at the pump is bad or there is a leak in the pipe.
      My bet is a leak because it cant get up to 50 psi and the pressure is some place.
      thanks for all the ideas
      I would replace the gauge too.

      They are cheap & go bad after a few years.

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      • #33
        Re: Well pump pressure switch

        I find when people have a leak, they know it. They may not know what to do about it, but they know something is wrong.

        Never found a check valve that saved the pump. Rarely been on a dead pump call with a leak.

        But I'm not dead yet either and there is always next week.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Well pump pressure switch

          Originally posted by speedbump View Post
          Since I am never there until the pump has failed, I can't argue that statement, but I have been working on jet pumps that after running for only ten minutes without moving water getting quite warm. The friction from a bunch of impellers spinning at 3450 RPM's can heat up a half gallon of water or so in quite a hurry.
          Numbers per Goulds. Their jet pump will handle 9 hours of running with no input water, only the water behind the impeller gasket, before the impeller heats the water and it warps enough to cause damage. The submersibles can handle about 10 hours submerged but moving no water. Dry running will cause it in less than 10 minutes.
          ~~

          ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

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          • #35
            Re: Well pump pressure switch

            Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
            What should the tank pressure be ? 28? Why so low..

            on a 30-50 system the tank is set to 28 not so much for efficiency but to ensure that the water still continues to flow out the taps when the pump activates. when the tank is set to 30 and the pump activates at 30 the equivalent tank pressure at activation is 0. No water flows. What you see at the faucet when it's set at 30/30 is the water slows, stops, and then the pump activates and water flows again. By setting the tank at 2 psi less you are setting your equivalent 0 pressure lower than when the pump activates. There is a 2 psi buffer.
            ~~

            ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

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            • #36
              Re: Well pump pressure switch

              This sounds exactly like my Dad's well leak a few months back. The pressure would never come up to 65 where it normally did. So he kept backing the pressure down until the 35 psi pressure bugged him too much. Then, rather than call me, he replaced the switch, switch pipe, and upper spring check. He replaced the pump TWICE. Gee, that didnt fix it either.

              Then he called. I kept telling him it was a leak. I even found a wet spot near the foundation. No no no, it cant be that, he says. So I dig it down to find that one of the hose clamps had rotted away and the poly connection to a nylon barbed elbow was allowing blow-by.

              I bet you find something similar. The upper check only makes the problem worse. It's harder to diagnose.
              ~~

              ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Well pump pressure switch

                Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
                Or the check valve at the pump is no good. It will take some time for me to see the drop because I have 4pounds of pressure coming up the pipe by its self.
                what if you do have a leak underground say at the pitless adapter or elsewhere and you have this positive pressure at ground level of roughly 2 to 4 psig maybe that is overcoming or masking any underground leak. How will you know if you have a bad footvalve or a leak since you have water exiting the pipe all the time with the pump off?
                "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

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                • #38
                  Re: Well pump pressure switch

                  Im going to keep the check valve at the tank for now because it will hold the pressure and turn off the pump.
                  Im going to add a tee and a gauge on the pump side. This will tell me that when the pump stops and the pressure goes down the check or foot valve is bad at the pump or there is a leak.
                  I need to lower the pressure like Punkys dad did until I can dig and look for a leak . We still have about 1 1/2 feet of frost.
                  Charlie

                  My seek the peek fundraiser page
                  http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                  http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                  new work pictures 12/09
                  http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Well pump pressure switch

                    is it feasible to run a temp overland to the well? Insulation and heat tape will keep it from freezing, but if your well is an extended distance away it may not be worth it.
                    INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
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                    • #40
                      Re: Well pump pressure switch

                      Its about 50 feet away.
                      I have a new gauge im going to put on.
                      I was on a fire call and the chief is a plumber. He said I should check the ohms of the pump. He did not know what the numbers were off hand.
                      Im also going to do a test of the pipe under ground when it gets warmer out. He will give me the tee handle to pull the pitless and put one in with a plug. the put an air teat on it from inside. If it holds its the pump.
                      Charlie

                      My seek the peek fundraiser page
                      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                      http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                      new work pictures 12/09
                      http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Well pump pressure switch

                        I do want to thank every one for your advice.
                        I did change the gauge and i have it set to go off at 45. The spring for the shut off setting id loose, I can not lover it below 45. Im wondering if the pressure switch is getting stuck?
                        I want to have the plumber I know do the testing and check the pump. But he says I can do it. I only helped 1 time pulling a pump before. I dont have the time during the day to do this . I will ask him for a price. What would you charge.
                        The well is an artisian well and it is pushing 4 psi up the pipe.
                        So I may do what he said with pulling the pitless and putting one back with a plug to see if it holds pressure.
                        Charlie

                        My seek the peek fundraiser page
                        http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                        http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                        new work pictures 12/09
                        http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Well pump pressure switch

                          Numbers per Goulds. Their jet pump will handle 9 hours of running with no input water, only the water behind the impeller gasket, before the impeller heats the water and it warps enough to cause damage. The submersibles can handle about 10 hours submerged but moving no water. Dry running will cause it in less than 10 minutes.
                          Have you got a link to this?

                          The only thing that hasn't been mentioned is electrolysis. If you have galvanized pipe, you may have a hole just above the pump in the pipe threads that is getting bigger which is making it harder for the pump to make pressure. That's why having a check valve at the tank is a bad idea. You don't know it's there because the pump stays off even though there is a leak. With the flowing well, you will not get the normal spitting air from faucets which happens when a drop pipe drains and lets air in. Your flowing well prevents that from happening.
                          Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Well pump pressure switch

                            Originally posted by speedbump View Post
                            Have you got a link to this?

                            Sorry, no. The information was given at the Gould's school for their pumps and other products. The last time I went it was a 3 day school. Lots of books, information, and hands on testing, diagnosis, and getting-the-feel-of-it.
                            ~~

                            ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Well pump pressure switch

                              Sorry, no. The information was given at the Gould's school for their pumps and other products. The last time I went it was a 3 day school. Lots of books, information, and hands on testing, diagnosis, and getting-the-feel-of-it.
                              I don't sell Goulds but they are a decent pump as are several others. I was never happy with their plastics, but maybe they are more heat tolerant. Most pumps with plastic impellers and PVC fittings in and out won't handle much heat and it doesn't take very long for a pump housing to get extremely hot. Far less than an hour. This I know from experience.
                              Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Well pump pressure switch

                                We think they may have had a problem with the check valve at the pump so they put one at the tank. When I find the problem I will take the check out at the tank.
                                Charlie

                                My seek the peek fundraiser page
                                http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                                http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                                new work pictures 12/09
                                http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                                Comment

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