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  • Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet

    Planning stages of basement bathroom. Photo 1 is an actual photo of the basement area Id like to put bathroom.

    -The purple is the existing 4" running in the slab. The location underground is confirmed via camera.

    -The brown is the estimated framing.

    -You can see the location I want to put the toilet and lav. The shower will be a 36" x 60" in the corner where the shelving is.

    -That stack on the left of the photo is all vent pipe above the upper 4" San-T. So I can tie into that to vent this bath group. (see photo #2)
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Re: Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet

    Here is a sketch of how Im thinking of setting the fixtures. Question I have is:

    Is it OK to use the shower drain as a wet vent for the toilet?


    -Purple is existing 4"
    -Gray will be 3" for toilet
    -Green will be 2" for shower and vent
    -Orange will be 1.5" for lav.

    The vent locations are shown in red circles.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by hammerlane; 02-04-2014, 12:49 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet

      Hammerlane,

      You've probably got this figured out by now, but just in case you don't-

      Not sure about the plumbing codes in Ohio, but in Michigan that layout and venting scheme would be legal provided you do the following-

      -Vent lavatory with piping or use an air admittance valve (BOCA vent, Studor vent, etc.)
      -Connect wet vent on toilet/shower branch with a wye situated on it's "back", eg. the side inlet facing upward, probably with a street 45 in it to get vertical.
      -Make sure that the vent at the top of that stack is dry and that your new connection to that section of vent is made 6" above the flood level of any fixtures that may be using it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet

        Originally posted by GreatLakesPlumber View Post
        Hammerlane,

        You've probably got this figured out by now, but just in case you don't-

        Not sure about the plumbing codes in Ohio, but in Michigan that layout and venting scheme would be legal provided you do the following-

        -Vent lavatory with piping or use an air admittance valve (BOCA vent, Studor vent, etc.)
        -Connect wet vent on toilet/shower branch with a wye situated on it's "back", eg. the side inlet facing upward, probably with a street 45 in it to get vertical.
        -Make sure that the vent at the top of that stack is dry and that your new connection to that section of vent is made 6" above the flood level of any fixtures that may be using it.
        If you notice the 4" San-T going into the wall, that picks up two garage drains. I am 100% positive that there are no other fixtures draining into that stack above the 4" San-T. As a note, I am also positive that these garage floor drains and therefore this stack is draining into the sanitary city sewer and not the storm sewer.

        I have another 4" stack about 20 feet away in the basement and that one picks up all my 1st and 2nd floor fixtures(kitchen, laundry and 2.5 baths)

        This house isn't that old and I've always wondered why the builder couldn't spend the extra few dollars for some fittings to at least rough in a basement bathroom. Maybe that vent was his way of saying, "Here...at least I gave you and easy way to vent a basement bathroom" I dont know. Just my 2 cents.
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet

          On another thread it was suggested that I try and make only one tie-in to the main 4" line. So with that in mind and the fact that Ohio code says:

          Ohio Chapter 4101:3-9. Any combination of fixtures within a bathroom group located on the same floor level is permitted to be vented by a horizontal wet vent. So I can wet-vent the toilet and shower from the lav. I think I am going to rearrange the fixtures and do one of the following.

          Thanks for commenting.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by hammerlane; 02-11-2014, 01:10 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet

            Either of these layouts would work, but I prefer the one on the left just because you can use a 3x2 wye on the 3" headed to the W.C., and pick-up the shower on the way to the vented lav. No reason to run 3" toward the lav and reduce it partway there. The diagram on the left saves you a reducing fitting and lets you use a slightly less expensive 3x2 wye instead of the 3" wye.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet

              GreatLakes....a buddy suggested placing the lav like I show it below in the left photo. This means running the drain for the lav thru the newly built wall. This puts the lav drain above grade and keeps concrete breakage to a real minimum as only the toilet and shower would need the cuts. The photo shows only the lav placement, the diagram shows all 3 fixture placements.

              If I go this route, at the tie-in for the lav at the existing 4" stack would it be OK to:
              1. Remove the existing cleanout tee and replace with a double San-T. One side of the Sant-T is for the lav and the other side would be the cleanout.

              2. Place cleanout T slightly higher on stack and use a single San-T below cleanout to pick up lav drain?


              What are your thoughts on this setup.

              Thanks
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet

                It looks like a viable option. Keep in mind that any advice I offer is based on knowledge of the plumbing codes in my State and I don't know how similar Michigan's codes are to Ohio's.

                Something to keep in mind if you do go this way - you want to rough in the drain for the lavatory at right around 19" A.F.F. to center. Higher if the cabinet is taller than a standard vanity cabinet and lower if the cabinet is shorter or the sink bowl is very deep. That said, about 95% of lav bowls work with the 19" height.

                Once you establish the height that the drain needs to be to accommodate your cabinet and lavatory bowl height, work your way back to the stack to establish the height you need to be at with your tee. I don't see much difference in using a double tee and adding a second single tee, other than cost. The double tee and new male cleanout with plug is going to cost you a little.

                Biggest issue you're going to have is trying to get enough movement in that 4" stack to get another tee installed in it. You'll likely have to use a repair coupling (coupling with no hub stop in it) or maybe even 2 of them.

                You'll have to weigh it out whether saving a few feet of concrete is worth it.


                Edit to add: One other thing. By the diagram you provide, it appears not to be an issue, but in this State you have to go downstream from the base of any wet/waste stack 10 pipe diameters before you're allowed to cut in a wye. If Ohio has the same rule, just make sure that the wye you cut in for the toilet and shower is 40" (10 pipe diameters) from the base of that 4" stack.
                Last edited by GreatLakesPlumber; 02-25-2014, 11:26 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet

                  Originally posted by GreatLakesPlumber View Post
                  Biggest issue you're going to have is trying to get enough movement in that 4" stack to get another tee installed in it. You'll likely have to use a repair coupling (coupling with no hub stop in it) or maybe even 2 of them. You'll have to weigh it out whether saving a few feet of concrete is worth it.
                  Correct..we'll have to use a repair coupling or we may be able to get a street San-T to work.

                  Originally posted by GreatLakesPlumber View Post
                  Edit to add: One other thing. By the diagram you provide, it appears not to be an issue, but in this State you have to go downstream from the base of any wet/waste stack 10 pipe diameters before you're allowed to cut in a wye. If Ohio has the same rule, just make sure that the wye you cut in for the toilet and shower is 40" (10 pipe diameters) from the base of that 4" stack.
                  Yes Ohio has the same requirement. The wye will be cut in more than 40" from the base of the stack.

                  Thanks

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet

                    You don't want the 2" line straight coupled onto the 3" as in the RIGHT side diagram. There won't be enough H2O from just the lav or just the shower to fill the 3" drain. The 3" drain will not be able to self clean (filled with running water) and in time become clogged.

                    It's different when a 2" in wyed in because the 3" line is handling a higher flow of H2O by itself and hence self cleans. This is why pipes are sized according to the fixture(s)

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                    • #11
                      Re: Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet

                      Originally posted by JeffH View Post
                      You don't want the 2" line straight coupled onto the 3" as in the RIGHT side diagram. There won't be enough H2O from just the lav or just the shower to fill the 3" drain. The 3" drain will not be able to self clean (filled with running water) and in time become clogged.
                      Are you referring to the diagram on the right of this?
                      Attached Files

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                      • #12
                        getting ready to knockout this floor to rough-in this basement bath(toilet, lav and shower). I bought the shower base, 34x48 with a center drain. This is how I'm planning the below grade plumbing for the toilet and shower.

                        -Pics show plumbing for toilet and shower


                        -The lav will be plumbed above grade.

                        -The purple line is the location of the existing 4" drain below grade

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                        • #13
                          floor opened up...
                          Tip: dont rent the Makita electric concrete saw from HD with the shop vac attachment for dust collection and think its going to collect all the dust from cutting. Not even close.

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                          • #14
                            that's why it's always done wet...
                            ~~

                            ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
                              that's why it's always done wet...
                              I would of preferred wet but They only had a gas operated wet-cut saw. Didnt want to use gas in side in basement

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