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6" valve for sewer shutoff? Gate or ball, PVC or Cast

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  • #16
    Re: 6" valve for sewer shutoff? Gate or ball, PVC or Cast

    Originally posted by lj973gm View Post
    I have that exact clean check installed less than a year ago and even pulled it up to clean the flap during the time the sewage was entering my basement last week and it was not sealing off 100%.

    So that is the main reason I need a real shut off.

    I would rather go metallic valve of some sort over PVC.

    Then your best bet is the JR Smith valve. I can check on exact pricing of the valve tomorrow morning. The price listed in the website is manufacture suggest list price. Now here is a question, does your home have drain tiles? and are they ran to a sump pump pit? Or are they connected to your sewer? Lots of the homes built prior to the 70's had the drain tiles tied directly to the sewer. If the person that installed the Clean Check didn't disconnect the drain tiles, you will get water since it can not drain as the valve is sealing shut.
    Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
    A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
    Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
    Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: 6" valve for sewer shutoff? Gate or ball, PVC or Cast

      This is a video from our competitor about a flood control system. It is a good watch to see what is involved.

      Sewer Backup Prevention Chicago | Sewer Backup Protection Chicago | Sewage Back Up Chicago - YouTube
      Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
      A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
      Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
      Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: 6" valve for sewer shutoff? Gate or ball, PVC or Cast

        In Winnipeg you have to route your weeping tile from your floor drain to a sump pump pit if you put in a backwater valve in an older house (new ones require weeping to go directly to the sump pit).

        The city gives a one time grant of 60% of the cost up to $1000 Cdn for the backwater valve and and up to additional $2000 towards the sump pit /pump to try and reduce basement flooding from combined sewer districts.

        It's a first come first served for the grant money and the h/o has to pay up front so if there are more applications then the amount budgeted the h/o gets nothing back.

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        • #19
          Re: 6" valve for sewer shutoff? Gate or ball, PVC or Cast

          I found a Zurn locally that is the same setup as the JR smith or Josam for 850$

          The home used to have clay tile outside for the gutters, unsure where it went to likely sewer system but they have since been capped off with and replaced with drain for each running away from house under grade. Original sump pit does not have drain tile feeding it just a 2" hole in the bottom only. No inlets beside previous homeowner tie into the floor drain. I guess they could be exterior drain tile as well that feed into the sewer as well.

          Home will have interior drain tile installed in the next month or two. I tried to PM you SewerRatz on plumbing zone since you are local to me to see if your company does drain tile installs.

          We did not have any rain during the time the valve was shut or partially shut but there was snow melt so it is feasible it could be run off. It did smell like sewage though and had a floater in it.

          The part that throws me off on the Zurn and JR Smith valve is they both have a note stating

          Not designed nor intended to be used as a shut-off valve.

          and

          "NOTE: These valves offer protection against backwater surges. Backflow is prevented when valve is not obstructed by debris or sludge. Use for gravity flow only, not for pressurized applications"

          There is no psi rating, will they be up to the task of holding back sewage from condo units with overhead sewers feeding the system and my home being the low point?
          Last edited by lj973gm; 03-06-2014, 11:41 PM.

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          • #20
            Re: 6" valve for sewer shutoff? Gate or ball, PVC or Cast

            The problem with any backwater valve is they are not self cleaning. They restrict flow and really are more of a pronlem than what they protect.

            The brass flapper don't open fully and trap paper and debris behind them. Eventually they fail in the partially open position. So unless you have good acdess to service them, they will cause you grief.

            The plastic extended ones ron linked are a more feasible option and simple to self service from the surface. They're plastic with a rubber flapper disc. They're more forgiving and don't rely on a hinge pin. Takes a minute to service and repair the disc. But they too won't seal 100% with paper grease and waste present.

            Rick.
            phoebe it is

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            • #21
              Re: 6" valve for sewer shutoff? Gate or ball, PVC or Cast

              A lot of good suggestions here. The only one missing is that it's illegal to install a shutoff valve in a waste system and back water valves only with approval.
              sigpic

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              • #22
                Re: 6" valve for sewer shutoff? Gate or ball, PVC or Cast

                Originally posted by lj973gm View Post
                I found a Zurn locally that is the same setup as the JR smith or Josam for 850$

                The home used to have clay tile outside for the gutters, unsure where it went to likely sewer system but they have since been capped off with and replaced with drain for each running away from house under grade. Original sump pit does not have drain tile feeding it just a 2" hole in the bottom only. No inlets beside previous homeowner tie into the floor drain. I guess they could be exterior drain tile as well that feed into the sewer as well.

                Home will have interior drain tile installed in the next month or two. I tried to PM you SewerRatz on plumbing zone since you are local to me to see if your company does drain tile installs.

                We did not have any rain during the time the valve was shut or partially shut but there was snow melt so it is feasible it could be run off. It did smell like sewage though and had a floater in it.

                The part that throws me off on the Zurn and JR Smith valve is they both have a note stating

                Not designed nor intended to be used as a shut-off valve.

                and

                "NOTE: These valves offer protection against backwater surges. Backflow is prevented when valve is not obstructed by debris or sludge. Use for gravity flow only, not for pressurized applications"

                There is no psi rating, will they be up to the task of holding back sewage from condo units with overhead sewers feeding the system and my home being the low point?

                Not approved to be used as a shut off valve for potable water systems. You wouldn't believe how many jobs I went to and someone wanted to install a sewer back water valve on the water main coming in to the commercial building. PSI rating is way more than that of the PVC valves.


                Also if you had downspouts that tied into your sewer then you have drain tiles that tie in as well. You need to have the line televised from the inside clean out on the stack out to the Clean Check and locate the drain tile connection. Once it is located it needs to be dug up and disconnected from the sanitary line and ran to a sump pump pit.


                Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                The problem with any backwater valve is they are not self cleaning. They restrict flow and really are more of a pronlem than what they protect.

                The brass flapper don't open fully and trap paper and debris behind them. Eventually they fail in the partially open position. So unless you have good acdess to service them, they will cause you grief.

                The plastic extended ones ron linked are a more feasible option and simple to self service from the surface. They're plastic with a rubber flapper disc. They're more forgiving and don't rely on a hinge pin. Takes a minute to service and repair the disc. But they too won't seal 100% with paper grease and waste present.

                Rick.
                Rick, we have thousands of these installed. As long as they are maintained and installed properly they will not cause any issues. I service a few hundred of these style valves and each one I open up there is no build up of waste before or after the brass flapper.


                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                A lot of good suggestions here. The only one missing is that it's illegal to install a shutoff valve in a waste system and back water valves only with approval.

                All quality sanitary backwater valves are approved in Illinois. I have cities, like Naperville that will split the cost of installing a backwater valve with the property owner. Don't get me wrong, still need a permit, and have to be sure the device being installed is approved by the local code.
                Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: 6" valve for sewer shutoff? Gate or ball, PVC or Cast

                  Ron, the op said he wanted a shutoff valve, not a back water valve.
                  sigpic

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                  • #24
                    Re: 6" valve for sewer shutoff? Gate or ball, PVC or Cast

                    Ended up with 6" Spears PVC ball valve rated to 175 psi, which is actuality means nothing since the mission band or another joint will be the weak point before the valve. Snagged the valve as a new surplus item on ebay. Typical cost is $600.

                    The 6" main waste outlet is 18" below grade so I will be placing the valve in a sump basin with sealed inlets and outlets so it can be accessed and not immersed in ground water.

                    Ordered up some CP-66 Mission bands.

                    Waiting on special order basin to be delivered and see how this works.

                    I was looking at $1,000 for the shutoff valve/check combo after the main unit and riser assembly to rear finished floor. The PVC valve and basin is $250, I already have the clear check valve outside so that is covered as well.

                    Thanks to everyone for the help. Will try and toss up some pictures once this is all done.

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                    • #25
                      Re: 6" valve for sewer shutoff? Gate or ball, PVC or Cast

                      Make sure to exercise the valve so it won't jam with waste.

                      Rick.
                      phoebe it is

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: 6" valve for sewer shutoff? Gate or ball, PVC or Cast

                        Tramco Pump

                        This is my preferred method of flood control inside the basement. Allows for use of your plumbing system during flood conditions. 1000's have been installed in the Chicago area. about $7000 Installed + electrical, which you could easily do yourself judging from your profile. This is classified as a backwater valve with pump assist as it can still flow by gravity if the pump is down or power is out.

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