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  • Air Compressor Distribution Line

    Hey All!!

    My air compressor works @ 110psi, 20 CFM.

    I'm preparing to run a cooper pipe air line in my shop. Plan to use ¾" or 1" pipes and have a lot of questions!

    Here in Brasil there are 3 different classes of cooper piping: "E" = 0.5mm "A" = 0.7mm and "I" = 1,0mm thickness. Must be an international standard, I think.

    Questions:

    a) I plan to use class A = 0,7mm. Is this OK?

    b) How to cut pipes, hand hacksaw or tube cutter?

    c) Pipe fittings, use cooper or bronze? Pressure lines use bronze?

    Any more recommendations? Any thing to remember?

    Thanks for the help.

    Ari

  • #2
    Can't say as I'm familiar with the "E", "A" and "I" rating system. Here, copper tubing is classified as either "M", "L" and "K" with "M" having the thinest wall. Type L or K would be my choice for pnuematic service. It would appear to me that your A would be an equal to our L so it should be OK to use.

    A hacksaw would work just fine to cut it but a tubing cutter would be a better tool and give you a more precise cut. Whichever you choose, be sure to deburr each cut piece before assembly.

    Copper sweat fittings would also be my choice over bronze fittings just because of the cost factor. Because of the moisture in compressed air, don't forget to place a bleeder valve at the bottom of each line coming off of the main line to make flushing the system easy.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the "John" and renamed it the "Jim". I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.

    Comment


    • #3
      Some good info in this thread, I got schooled ... Compressor Piping

      Comment


      • #4
        Ari,

        You will be fine with copper fittings. The brass fittings will be fine for your adapting over to your air tool fittings and valves. Consider using the heavier gauge of pipe for your loop, in a shop environment the line is going to be hit and abused more often than you would think. Badger dave is correct when he mentions the installing of bleeder valves in your lines to help eliminate moisture problems. There are dryers available but for your application a few bleeder valves will do fine. Also use the one inch diameter, this will give you a bit more storage capacity along with your tank on the compressor.

        Support your pipe well, use hangers or straps, copper coated or rubber insulated at regular intervals. In a workshop environment my recommendation would be not less than 5 ft intervals.

        You might want to consider silver soldering your fittings also. Regular solder will hold but silver solder works better for higher pressure applications.
        Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

        Comment


        • #5
          That's why I like this place very much!

          DAVE: I will install bleeder valves at the bottom of each line. And will be using a tube cutter.

          WBRUCKS: Thanks for the link.!

          PLUMBER: I will need to learn more about silver soldering and use it. May I use the RT100 solder for it? Thanks for all the tips!

          Just for future reference, let's not forget about the line inclination of about 5° that helps draining moisture out.

          Thanks guys for your time and kindness.

          Greetings.

          Ari

          Comment


          • #6
            Ari,

            5 degrees of slope is too much. Its not even a good idea to build a gravity drain with that much pitch. Plus your finished project will look awful.

            If you look in other shops and mechanics garages you will see the air lines level or nearly level. The bleed valves on the drops to your hose connections and the moving air will allow you to remove the moisture with out problems.

            If you are familiar with gas piping the drip legs at the end of a gas line just before the appliance is installed to catch moisture and dirt before it can foul the appliances gas oriface. If you install your air lines in a similar fashion you will be very pleased with the results. Install your bleeder valves at the bottom of these legs . This also allows you to hold a small bucket under the valve when you bleed it off, but be careful as the air and moisture rushing out of the pipe can cause any small debris in the bottom of the bucket to fly out and enter your eye so wear saftey glasses when you bleed your lines.

            Out of curiosity, how long will your loop be when it is completed?

            [ 02-09-2005, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: plumber ]
            Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by plumber:
              Ari,

              5 degrees of slope is too much.
              Sorry!!, this will be .5% off the total length.

              Originally posted by plumber:


              If you are familiar with gas piping the drip legs at the end of a gas line just before the appliance is installed to catch moisture and dirt before it can foul the appliances gas oriface. If you install your air lines in a similar fashion you will be very pleased with the results. Install your bleeder valves at the bottom of these legs . This also allows you to hold a small bucket under the valve when you bleed it off, but be careful as the air and moisture rushing out of the pipe can cause any small debris in the bottom of the bucket to fly out and enter your eye so wear saftey glasses when you bleed your lines.

              Plumber, this is my view of the final work. I,m trying to make some thing like this:



              Do you like it?

              Originally posted by plumber:
              Out of curiosity, how long will your loop be when it is completed?
              The horizontal loop will be about 32 feet long with 4 vertical terminations.

              I hope I undestood every thing...

              Greetings!!

              Ari

              Comment


              • #8
                Ari,

                If you build your system like that it will work very well and it will work very well for a long time. The slope of the main trunk line shown is exaggerated I hope.

                I apologize that I do not have the computer skills to draw a picture of what I would like to explain. The slope of your pipe should be barely perceptable to the naked eye. One half of one percent would be the maximum of what I would want for fall on a compressor line. The force of the air and gravity will help eliminate the moisture. The piping diagram you have shows the drip legs as they should be.

                If you are not familiar with silver soldering I would suggest that you go ahead and use regular soft solder unless you feel like practicing for awhile before you take on this project. Silver solder is best, in my humble opinion, for what you want to do but regular solder will work.

                For a 32 ft long loop you should not need to install a dryer. If you have very high humidity and a lot of temperature fluctuations then a dryer might become a factor. But its something that you can always add later without a lot of work.

                Good luck with your project.
                Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Super Plumber!

                  Yes, the drawing is exaggerating the slop. I got your point and will follow your less slop tips.

                  About computer skills, this image was ready, it is not mine. The most sophisticated computer command I know is CTRL ALT DEL

                  In fact, I'm doing all this for learning. I never made silver soldering and I would love to. The problem is that I don't have the tools, oxygen and so on. At least I'm assuming in my ignorance that I will need oxy right? If so, how about BernzOmatic stuf?

                  About a dryer, Bras*lia is like Las Vegas, super dry and I will use good filters also.

                  Well, I will look for some information on silver soldering and will be updating here.

                  Plumber, once again, thank you very much!!

                  Ari

                  [ 02-10-2005, 04:44 AM: Message edited by: Ari ]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You are welcome Ari,

                    If you want to silver solder MAPP gas and a turbo torch will be hot enough. Its a lot cheaper set up than an oxy acetylene set up. About 40 to 60 bucks for the turbo torch and 8 bucks for the MAPP gas.

                    But if you get the oxy acetylene kit you can do a lot of other things as well. As time goes on you will probably end up with both set ups anyway. I,ve found that I never have enough toys or tools.
                    Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I WOULDN'T ADVISE ON SILVER SOLDERING. A FEW ISSUES.
                      THE HEAT AND TEMPERATURE REQUIRED WILL CAUSE THE PIPE AND JOINT TO BE ANNEALED. THIS WILL MAKE THE PIPE VERY SOFT AND MOST LIKELY IT WILL THEN BEND AT THE JOINT. ALSO IT WILL BE NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE TO PROPERLY CLEAN OUT THE ASHES INSIDE OF THE TUBING FROM THE BRAZING PROCESS. UNLESS YOU PURGE THE SYSTEM WITH NITROGEN WHILE BRAZING.
                      WE'RE NOT TALKING MEDICAL GAS SYSTEMS. THIS IS AN AIR LINE FOR SHOP USE.
                      LETS THINK ABOT THE PRESSURE YOUR USING. 175# MAX. SHOW ME ANYWHERE THAT SOFT SOLDER AND TYPE M PIPE WON'T HOLD THAT TYPE OF PRESSURE. REMEMBER THAT THE PIPE WON'T BE EXPOSED TO OUTSIDE ENVIROMENTS; SOIL. I AGREE THAT TYPE L IS THE WISER CHOICE. THE COST DIFFERENCEFOR THIS LITTLE AMOUNT OF MATERIAL ISN'T WORTH WASTING TIME OVER.
                      LAST I WOULD RECOMMEND A FILTER, OILER, AND RERGULATOR AT YOUR TERMINATION POINT. OILER CAN BE USED AS REQUIRED FOR THE TOOL YOUR USING. DRIP LEGS MIGHT CAUSE TOO BIG A SURGE WHEN OPENED AND CAN BECOME DANGEROUS. A FULL PORT VALVE AT THIS KIND OF PRESSURE IS NOT SAFE. IT'S ALMOST LIKE A SANDBLASTER GOING OFF. I FEEL THE FILTER/ SEPERATOR IS THE BETTER CHOICE.
                      GOOD LUCK AND DON'T OVER DO IT.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks Rick. I was talking about Silver to learn and practice.

                        Plumber, Benzomatic is not bringing Oxi kits to Brasil yet. Only MAPP. Yesterday I bought mine.

                        I found Phoscooper rods. In terms of hardness are they in between Silver and Soft Solder?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ari,

                          I have never used phoscopper rods so cannot say. But 5% silver rods will work well and flow better than the higher bearing rods do.

                          If you have access to Taracor products use them because they are the best I've found. They are the makers of Taramet Sterling, the best soft solder you can ever use. Their silver soldering material is of high quality and extremely consistant.

                          Be sure the torch you use with your MAPP gas will burn hot. You're going to need around 1200 degrees or so. Some torch heads work with the MAPP but do not take full advantage of MAPPs higher burn temperature in their flame. I am not an air to fuel expert but there is a differance in how hot the flame gets with different torch heads. Turbo Torch is the brand of hand held that I reccomend if it is available there.

                          Be sure to practice with several joints before building your air system. Soft soldering is very easy and forgiving but the silver soldering will take a bit more getting used to. You will probably burn up one or two fittings before you get the hang of it, but dont worry everyone does when they learn. Maybe make a square with a test port and test it with the highest air pressure you can find. Prefferably at least 10 psi higher than your new compressor can possibly go.
                          Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            LAST RECOMENDATION. DON'T SILVER SOLDER THIS SYSTEM. YOU WILL BE SORRY AS STATED BEFORE. SOFT SOLDER IS THE WAY TO GO. IF YOU WANT TO TRY SILVER SOLDERING THEN PLAY WITH IT ON SOME SCRAP MATERIAL AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. YOU'LL GET THE POINT.
                            PLUMBER RICK

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Plumber!!

                              This week end I tried silver, phoscooper and soft soldering. And I liked a lot phoscooper. It's not as easy as soft soldering or hard as silver. And I discovered, talking with the tool shopping guys that here, phoscooper is about to be the standard between the pros that work with refrigeration and compressed air.

                              I felt very comfortable soldering with silver as you mentioned. It's not hard after some practice and I understand that's a safe option.

                              I'm not in position to recommend any thing to you, the Plumbing Guru... but you should play with phoscooper some time, just for fun, at least... It's very easy and seems to do very safe joints.

                              I'll make the square loop as you say and talk about later.

                              About TurboTorch and Taracorp, I'll look for then.

                              The Benzomatic T757 is rated 12.300 BTU and the 7000 is 6.800 BTU.

                              I made a carrying box for the torches where the handle is the rod keeper... You can see it here

                              Well, for the moment, thank you once again.

                              Best

                              Ari

                              [ 02-14-2005, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Ari ]

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