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  • #61
    MARK, I PURCHASED THE "PIPE GENI" RIGHT OF THE TRADE SHOW FLOOR. THEY DELIVERED IT TO ME THE NEXT DAY PRIOR TO GOING BACK TO CANADA WHERE IT IS MADE.
    AFTER LOADING AND UNLOADING VERY EXPENSIVE EQUIPTMENT INTO AN OPEN TRAILER FOR 2 YEARS, I PURCHASED AN ENCLOSED TRAILER AND OUTFITTED IT JUST FOR THIS MACHINE. IT HAS A REAR RAMP DOOR AND A SIDE ACCESS DOOR. ALL NECESSARY EQUIPTMENT AND ACCESSORIES FIT INTO A 5' X 8' TRAILER. THE 20' HDPE PIPE I LOAD ON MY GMC W45OO TILT CAB.

    I COULD HAVE FIT THE EQUIPTMENT INTO THE GMC, BUT IT'S HEAVY AND WOULD NEED TO BE REMOVED WHEN FINISHED. THE TRAILER IS READY TO GO WHEN I FINISH THE JOB.

    ALSO A MOTORCYCLE LIFT ON PAVERS IS BUMPY. IF YOU DROP SMALL PARTS, HAVE FUN LOOKING FOR THEM. A CLEAR COAT SEALER EVERY YEAR DOES MAKE THE STONE COME ALIVE AND KEEPS DIRT, OIL FROM STAINING. IT DOES LOOK GOOD WITH THE RIGHT COLORS AND PATTERNS, BUT IT'S NOT CARE FREE.

    RICK.

    Comment


    • #62
      PLUMBER, CALM DOWN. YOU'RE BARKING LIKE THE DOG. ALL I SUGGESTED IS THAT WOULD'NT HAVE BEEN NICE TO USE A PROPRESS IN THAT SITUATION. YOU STATED THAT IT WAS TOO TIGHT TO FIT. I PICTURED THAT IF A PERSON CAN FIT THE SAWZALL INTO THE WALL AND PROPERLY SOLDER A 3'' FITTING, THEN THERE MUST HAVE BEEN SOME ROOM TO WORK. AS FAR AS CLEANING, I SAND THE PIPE IF IT'S NEED. IE: OLD PIPE, DIRTY PIPE, BURRED PIPE. THE PIPE YOUR WORKING WITH I ASSUME IS NEW. IF IT'S DIRTY EVERYBODY WILL TAKE THE REQUIRED STEPS TO CLEAN IT. BUT IN GENERAL, PROPRESS FITTINGS COME PRE LUBED WITH SILICON OIL. NO OTHER PREP TO THE FITTING IS NECESSAARY. THE PIPE OF COUSE IS CLEANED AS NEEDED. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO PREP IT LIKE SWEAT JOINTS. YOU CAN HANDLE IT WITHOUT CONTAMINATING THE CLEAN END. A SOLDERED JOINT TAKES SKILL IN ALL PHASES OF PREP, ASSY, AND SOLDERING. A PROPRESS FITTING IS MUCH MORE FORGIVING. THE TOOL IS COMPUTERIZED TO CRIMP AND GIVE YOU FEEDBACK TO A GOOD CRIMP. AS LONG AS THE FITTING IS INSERTED ALL THE WAY AND MARKED WITH A FELT MARKER, ONE CAN BE ASSURED IT WILL WORK.

      I'M NOT DOUBTING YOUR ABILITLY IN SOLDERING. I THINK THAT IF YOU HAD A CHOICE AND IT WAS FEASIBLE TO USE EITHER METHOD, THE PROPRESS WOULD HAVE BEEN EASIER AND QUICKER.
      I TOO HAVE HAD TO MAKE MANY REPAIRS TO LIVE LINES.

      THE WORST WAS A 5'' COPPER HOT MAIN LOCATED BEHIND AN AIR HANDLER INSIDE OF THE MECHANICAL CLOSET OF THE CONDO. THE CONDITIONS WERE VERY CRAMPED, HOT, AND TIME WAS A FACTOR. I WAS THERE FROM 12:30 AM- 5:30 AM. HAD ONLY ENOUGH FITTINGS AND OXY-ACCY TO MAKE IT WORK 1 TIME. SHUTTING AND DRAINING A 27 FLOOR CONDO HIGH RISE WAS NOT EASY IN THE TIME WE HAD. I CHOSE TO SILVER BRAZE THE PIPE TO ASSURE A GOOD JOINT. WATER DRIPPING DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME NEGATIVE RESULTS AS IT DOES SOFT SOLDERING.

      NEEDLESS TO SAY THE REPAIR WENT WELL.
      HAD PROPRESS BEEN AROUND BACK THEN, AND HAD IT COME IN 5''. I KNOW NOW, THIS JOB WOULD HAVE BEEN A BREEZE.

      YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE THAT KNOWS THE JOB CONDITIONS YOU ENCOUNTERED AT THE SCHOOL. IF YOU WERE ABLE TO USE IT, I THINK YOU TOO WOULD HAVE LIKED THE RESULTS.

      PLUMBER, I'M NOT TRYING TO CHALLENGE YOU OR OTHERS, I'M SHARING MY EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE WITH ALL. JUST AS YOU AND THE OTHERS DO ON A REGULAR BASIS. ONE THING I CAN SHARE WITH OTHERS IS THAT I'M USUALLY THE NEW KID ON THE BLOCK WITH THE NEWEST TOYS OUT THERE.
      SOME WORK, SOME DON'T. IF IT'S JUNK, I'LL LET ALL KNOW. IF IT WORKS, I'LL LET ALL KNOW TOO.

      PLEASE FORGIVE MY TYPING ABILITIES. I TYPE IN ALL CAPS, BECAUSE IT'S FASTER AND EASIER TO READ.
      I NEVER TOOK TYPING IN SCHOOL AND COMPUTERS CAME OUT WELL AFTER I WAS OUT.

      I WRITE LIKE A MED. DR. WRITES PERSCRIPTIONS.
      SO TYPING IS A BONUS TO ALL. MY CUSTOMERS LOVE THE FACT THAT ALL OF THEIR INVOICES ARE TYPED OUT AND PRINTED PRIOR TO LEAVING THE JOB. ALL INFORMATION IS LEGIBLE. NO COMPLAINTS ON CAPITOLS.

      SORRY, BUT CHANGING TO PROPER TYPING FORMAT IS ?

      YOU CAN'T TEACH AN OLD DOG NEW TRICKS. WHEN IT COMES TO TYPING. PLUMBING I'M ALL EARS.

      RICK

      Comment


      • #63
        Rick,

        I'm staying out of this one, but I certainly see Plumber's point.

        On the X-Files:

        A few years ago I was running a school re-modernization project. One of the buildings was a two-story science lab that included about 50 sinks. Upon completing the finish work on the first floor, we found we were getting no cold water to one of the sinks. The supply came from an over-head branch line that was feeding four other fixtures; all had water.

        I began to get concerned that someone had valved off the line, somewhere on the drop. But, this really made no sense. We isolated that branch line, and drained it. We cut the copper just below the tee feeding the drop and bumped the water back on for a second. No water.

        We cut the tee out and discovered that the inside of the branch was completly sealed with a copper disc. I was never properly formed at the factory. As luck would have it, it was overhead in a tee-bar ceiling, otherwise it would have been search and destroy time on that wall.

        Since then I've advised everyone to check their fittings before installation.

        the dog

        ps. I agree with Plumber on the use of capitals. It sort of gives the impression someone is shouting.
        the dog

        Comment


        • #64
          All caps in this format are harder to read than regular typing and I've had coke bottles since I was old enough to trap my brothers head in the ballisters. Besides, I thought all caps on the internet meant the person doing the typing was shouting. And is it really harder to push down on the keys when the Cap Lock button is unlocked? I notice absolutely no one else here using your method. Or is that the pro press method.

          Rick, You have not been just making suggestions, you have been insisting that I should have used propress. On a job that has been completed for awhile. Regardless of my attempts to explain to you that the danged thing wouldnt fit you kept on insisting that it would, bragging all the way that your way of doing things was so far superior than anyone elses and insinuating that I did not know what I was talking about.

          As far as barking like the dog, well, whatever you think. It's not wise to provoke a bear.
          Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

          Comment


          • #65
            Rick,

            pps. If it makes it easier, stick with your all capitals system. I think we call all live with it.
            the dog

            Comment


            • #66
              plumbdog,

              I've seen fittings improperly formed and with molding mistakes but never one as bad as the one you described. Did the fitting manf. help defray any of the troubleshooting costs?
              Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

              Comment


              • #67
                The good thing about Internet is we get to communicate from our own homes. The bad thing is we have to make assumptions about attitudes and emotions. All capitals definitely is a symbol of YELLING but understanding Rick’s limitations I don’t mind. However, I’m not sure I know many people who actually type. I have just gotten pretty good at hunting and pecking with the keyboard.

                Mark

                BTW: Starting around August 15th I might be a little grumpy for a couple of weeks. If I offend anyone just know I meant no harm nor disrespect.
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #68
                  Okay back to unusual jobs:

                  I had a call from a guy who owned a home on a hill with a 1200 foot gas service line. His gas had been turned off by the Gas Company and he needed a quick repair. The gas line was installed in gas type PVC and the joints were separating. This was the second time I had been called on a job of this type. As I was aware of the issue I was comfortable in my estimate of the cost to repair the line.

                  As it turns out he found another company who was cheaper and he went with them. Several months later this guy calls me up and is having all sorts of problems. The other company could not find the leak so they pressurized the line with water. After they repaired the line they thought they got all of the water out. However there was still moisture in the lines and now it took out all of his control valves in the hose.

                  To repair the problem I had to cut the gas line at the bottom of the hill. Once I opened the pipe I used a poly plug, a pull string and a vacuum cleaner. It took a long time but I was finally able to dry the moisture out of the pipe. I then had to replace all of the control valves and install drip legs through the system.

                  My final repair was three time as much as my original estimate and the other plumber refused to give the homeowner a refund.

                  Ten years prior to this I had a similar situation inside a house but I used compressed air and Freon to remove the moisture. Afterwards I worried about phosgene gas and inert gases and what they might do so I never tried that again.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Utah,

                    Thats an interesting problem. Here all utility meters for residential services are on the home. The utility purveyor is responsible for maintaining the service up to the meter. As far as I know its been that way since modern times.

                    I am suprised that drip legs were not all ready installed in the gentlemans home. The gas companies here will not allow service unless each appliance has passed inspection and they all require them here.

                    Did the home owner attempt to recover from the original contractor?
                    Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Plumber,

                      Because this is in a ruarl area the meters are at the street. That way the meter reader does not have to drive though the corals to get up to the house.

                      Drip legs are only required when you have dirty or moist gas. Our natural gas is neither so we quit using drip legs thirty years or so ago.

                      We also had to stop using copper because of the ordorant used by the gas company. I did a remodel once and found the entire gas system was piped in copper. What made it odd was the water was in galvanized.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by plumber:
                        plumbdog,

                        I've seen fittings improperly formed and with molding mistakes but never one as bad as the one you described. Did the fitting manf. help defray any of the troubleshooting costs?
                        Plumber,

                        That is the first and only time I've seen it. I don't remember the brand or I would have named it. I turned it into the office (I no longer worked for that company) so I don't know what transpired. The fact is, it only took about an hour between me an my assistant forman to find the problem, but, as I stated we were lucky. I never balled-out the plumber who installed it because I realized that I never check the inside of copper fittings myself. Of course, now I do.


                        the dog
                        the dog

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow:
                          Plumber,

                          Because this is in a ruarl area the meters are at the street. That way the meter reader does not have to drive though the corals to get up to the house.

                          Drip legs are only required when you have dirty or moist gas. Our natural gas is neither so we quit using drip legs thirty years or so ago.

                          We also had to stop using copper because of the ordorant used by the gas company. I did a remodel once and found the entire gas system was piped in copper. What made it odd was the water was in galvanized.

                          Mark
                          Utah,

                          You will find gas meters at the curb in Whittier, California, which is a suburban area, it is also an old area. I agree on drip legs, they are not necessary in southern California. I once saw copper used for gas in a New Port Beach Condo I worked on as a side job. I know, because I cut into it thinking that it was a water line.

                          the dog
                          the dog

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I guess I did not take into consideration your climate. We sometimes have 100+ heat in the summer and sometimes 0- in the winter with large fluctuations in between. Our gas is moist on occasion, drip legs are a necessity here.

                            Even the homes on hills (our hills are not as big as yours) have the utility meters on the homes. The large industrial plants are different but thats a seperate thing all together.

                            One other thing I have noticed reading your posts, it seems you discharge your T&Ps outside and install cleanouts to the outside and in general expose a lot of your plumbing systems to the outside elements. Due to our climate here thats something that can never be considered in Illinois.

                            I spent about 18 months in Tuscon as a young man.... The sight of water heaters sitting outside and water services exposed to the open air was something I never became used to seeing.
                            Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              In alot of areas the gas meters are located in a vault out by the streets. The old homes had meters under the crawl space of the home. I think that's about as dangerous as can be. They run the regulator vent ouside but I still don't like it.

                              As for freeze protection it depends on where you are. The North end of LA county requires pipes in attic need to be insulated due to freezing.

                              To give you another example of climate differences, I developed a water company in Utah form an underground source I have on my property.

                              When I was laying out the plans for the system I figured using all RPs with hot boxes. I was told in Utah they prefer a double check in a vault due to freeze conditions. I had also required anyone who tied into the system use an RP. I was told only a Wilkins 700 was required.

                              It seems protection from freezing is more important to Utah then cross contamination of water.

                              Mark
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                ANOTHER ONE FOR THE X FILES. I USED TO WORK FOR A NEW CONSTRUCTION PLUMBING CO. THAT DID ALOT OF RESIDENTIAL WORK. THIS PARTICULAR JOB HAD INDIVIDUAL GAS METERS FEEDING EACH UNIT. SOMEHOW DURING THE JOB 1.5'' OF LIGHTWEIGHT CONCRETE GOT INTO THE BOTTOM OF A HANDFULL OF 3/4'' RISERS FEEDING THE RANGES.
                                THIS DIDN'T MAKE ITSELF KNOWN TILL THE OWNERS MOVED IN. THE RUFF CREW DIDN'T BOTHER CHECKING THE BOTTOM OF THE RISERS PRIOR TO INSTALLING THEM.
                                OF COURSE I DIDN'T GET CALLED UNTILL THE GAS CO. WENT TO START UP THE UNITS AS THE OWNERS MOVED IN.
                                EACH SET OF RISERS WERE INSTALLED SIDE BY SIDE 4 WIDE ON THE 4 STORY BUILDING. COUPLINGS AT EACH LEVEL TO CONTINUE UP.

                                I FOUND THAT A ROLL OF 50/50 SOLDER COULD BE PUSHED DOWN FROM THE RANGE STUB OUT. WHEN I COULDN'T PUSH ANY FARTHER, I WOULD BRING THE SOLDER BACK UP AND MEASURE THE LENGTH. AT THIS POINT I WAS ABLE TO FIND THE EXACT LOCATION TO CUT THE WALL AND UNSCREW THE RISER TO DRILL OUT THE CONCRETE. WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AN EXPENSIVE REPAIR, TURNED OUT TO BE AN HOUR OF WORK ONCE I FIGURED OUT THE REAL PROBLEM.

                                I ALSO MADE AN EXTENDED DRILL BIT TO DRILL UP FROM THE GARAGE AND RECONNECT WITH A L&R. THIS WAS FINE ON THE LINES THAT WENT STRAIGHT UP WITH NO OFFSETS.

                                RICK.

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