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hello Rick qst. on pipe bursting

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  • hello Rick qst. on pipe bursting

    can you explane this further? what material do you pull in? from which direction? where can i see this equept. on line. why isn't it done more ? what are the draw back's or possibiliteys for trouble?thank's tool
    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

  • #2
    Originally posted by toolaholic:
    can you explane this further? what material do you pull in? from which direction? where can i see this equept. on line. why isn't it done more ? what are the draw back's or possibiliteys for trouble?thank's tool
    tool, i've written on this subject on a few occasions, but here it goes in short order.

    first the exisiting line needs to be videoed to check for location, depth, and any tees or offsets. tees need to be marked for later reconnection to the branch. usually you try to pull a line with no tees.

    pipe bursting is a process where a new pipe is pulled through an exisiting line. the exisiting line, typically a sewer pipe is split open and forced into the surrounding ground to make room for the new full size or up-size of pipe. the equiptment that pulls the new piping (typically hdpe sdr17) is hydraulicly powered as the force to accomplish this is anywhere from 10-40 tons for 4-6'' pipe. more for larger pipe. a cable or a chain is connected to the pulling winch and fished through the exisiting pipe. it is then attached to a tapered splitting head that adapts to the new piping being pulled in behind it. the entry and exit pit needs to be exposed for the installation of the new pipe and equiptment.the pulling machine (exit ditch) requires typically a 2' wide x 4' long x 6'' deeper than the exisiting pipe needs to be dug.
    the entry ditch needs to be large enough to allow for a person to reconnect to the exisiting piping. sort of the size needed to install a cleanout tee.
    the length of the pull is only limited by the amount of cable or pulling chain. i've done 140' in 1 pull. a max. of 3- 45degree offsets can be pulled in at once.

    as far as issues go. the ground can be too hard (rock) and this can cause the chain or cable to break. the ground can be too soft and the pulling machine will get pulled into the dirt. the dirt acts as the backing to support the force of the machine. more shoring into stable ground would be needed.

    typically the deeper end is where the puller is located and the shallow end for the entry pit. sometimes it can be reversed if the ditch is strong enough. also the entry pit needs to be approx. 8' away from a wall. the 4'' sdr 17 is pretty stiff and you need room to allow for bending.

    in a nutshell this is the jist of things.

    rick.

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    • #3
      thank's Rick, someday i may have a situation where i'll need someone with that equept.
      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

      Comment


      • #4
        How do you avoid bellies and high spots?
        Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

        Comment


        • #5
          Tool,

          I'm kind of wondering why every thread you start is adressed to Rick. Why not just e-mail him? There are a number of qualified plumbers on this forum who respond, use them. If you are posting on this forum I think you should give the other plumbers their respect. Post your question. If you feel that Rick is the only one who knows what he is doing, so be it. But if that is the case, e-mail him.

          the dog
          the dog

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by plumber:
            How do you avoid bellies and high spots?
            plumber, the first and most important issue prior to pipebursting is to video the line properly. if the pipe has major highs and lows, then pipebursting will not correct the exisiting issues. typically the pipe is not flat or has high spots. minor issues will be corrected by the fact that the puller will cut a straight path through the soil. as the ground is spread, the pipe will follow a true path as the tension will draw it at the straightest, shortest path possible. the path of least resistance. just as a 45 degree offset will be pulled to a very gradual 45 degree offset. not a sharp 45. it will cut a closer, shorter path. also the material is so slick that even if a small bellie or hill exist, it will have little to no bearing on a stoppage. plus the line is revideoed afterwards to check its condition.

            in the few years that i've done this technique, i've never had to go back and snake the line.

            hope that answered your question.

            rick.

            Comment


            • #7
              So the pipe being pulled completely fills the void in the ground and there are no cavities below or beside the pipe to cause problems ten or twenty years hence? I can see many applications where this would be a good idea but I am getting older and am somewhat stuck on the old tried and true. What type of couplings are used on the pipe being pulled in this manner? What type of guarantee can you offer your customer?

              I ask these questions because they would be what I would want to know before I spent my money on the procedure.
              Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Rick,

                I had heard at one time, inspectors sometimes drop a golf ball in the line after pipe bursting just to make sure the line has fall. Has an inspector ever done that on one of your jobs and what happens to the golf ball?

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by plumbdog10:
                  Tool,

                  I'm kind of wondering why every thread you start is adressed to Rick. Why not just e-mail him? There are a number of qualified plumbers on this forum who respond, use them. If you are posting on this forum I think you should give the other plumbers their respect. Post your question. If you feel that Rick is the only one who knows what he is doing, so be it. But if that is the case, e-mail him.

                  the dog
                  I was starting to think it was getting time for them to get a room.
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    plumber, actually the exisiting ditch is more compacted than before, since the surrounding soil is compacted more to make room for the new pipe. the pipe of preference is hdpe sdr17. the 20' sections are butt fused together and the final connection to the exisiting piping is via a fernco/ mission coupling. the nice thing about the hdpe, is that you can hit it with a sledge hammer and you won't damage it. in fact if i need to push the pipe the final couple of feet once i pull out the equiptment, i will hit it with a sledge hammer to move it the final depth. you can't say this about no hub, abs, or clay. i don't think too many chemicals can affect this pipe.

                    as far as a guarantee goes. 1 year for sure, like anything we install. probably 10 years if the law says so for latent defects. the material is the same (black instead of yellow) as used by the gas utilities companies and commercial relining companies. this is pressure rated pipe. in fact the material is used in pressurized systems including large bore water mains. the nice thing is since you're not digging the whole system up. compaction of the ditch is eliminated. most sewers and repairs that i inspect are bad due to poor compaction.

                    in fact my wife and i run the equipment. i do the heavy work and she operates the controls. most people use a crew of 3-5. lack of experience.

                    rick.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      mark, havn't had an inspector ever do a golf ball. have had a few ask for a video. even some sign off before i was finished.
                      just like anything else. if you have a good rapor with inspectors, they will work with you. at first they were skeptical, now they are better informed.

                      dog,as far as tool goes. he is still new to this whole computer thing. just as i learn more about the internet, he will too. although he did address the pipebursting to me, it does look like all the regulars are curious too. i've had plenty of topics come to me on a private post, i do like the forum for ease of sharing. i don't need to answer on a one on one basis. that's the whole purpose of the forum concept. thanks.

                      rick.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        well dog ,rick is the only one that answers my questions
                        much of the time. also he owns this equept. no disrespect intended. about the room comment mark.
                        it's interisting what some one will type in the safety of there home. dought you'd say that to my face.
                        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by toolaholic:
                          well dog ,rick is the only one that answers my questions
                          much of the time. also he owns this equept. no disrespect intended. about the room comment mark.
                          it's interisting what some one will type in the safety of there home. dought you'd say that to my face.
                          I guess you missed my smilely face but to answer your question, yes I absolutely would have said it to your face.

                          It is called a joke tool and I meant no offense to either of you. Try not to take yourself too seriously as life is too short.

                          Mark
                          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            thankyou Mark ,you're right,if i had seen your smile i would have laughed too.i'm working 6 and 7 12S. not
                            fun, and too much pressure. even though i live near sf ,i still like girls! ALMOST FORGOT
                            HI RICK HONEY
                            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by toolaholic:
                              thankyou Mark ,you're right,if i had seen your smile i would have laughed too.i'm working 6 and 7 12S. not
                              fun, and too much pressure. even though i live near sf ,i still like girls! ALMOST FORGOT
                              HI RICK HONEY
                              LOL - Thanks tool
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                              Comment

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