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  • #16
    Plumber,

    It looks like I was typing while you were posting.

    As for California's business section of the test, Nevada, Arizona and Utah all have similar requirements.

    The business test includes a little accounting, some OSHA stuff, labor laws and lien laws.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK:
      DOG, THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR, A REAL ANSWER TO THE QUESTION.
      YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THE MENTION THAT A CONTRACTOR IS NOT NECESSARLY THE PERSON WHO IS INSTALLING THE PLUMBING. I CAN ATTEST TO THAT. I WORKED FOR A VERY LARGE NEW CONSTRUCTION UNION SHOP THAT WAS AROUND SINCE THE 40'S. THE OWNER, WHO CLAIMED HE WAS ONCE A JOURNEYMAN PLUMBER, COULDN'T EVEN CHANGE AN AEREATOR ON THE END OF A FAUCET WITHOUT SCREWING IT UP. I'M NOT MAKING THIS UP. IT'S REAL. A COMPANY IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PEOPLE WHO WORK THERE.
      AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, THE UNDERQUALIFED PEOPLE I'M REFERRING TO ARE THE JOURNEYMEN, CONTRATORS AND INSPECTORS.
      I THOUGHT A PLUMBING CONTRACTOR HAS TO BE A JOURNEYMAN PLUMBER FIRST. THE STATE CONTRACTORS TEST COVERS THE BUSINESS END AND THE TRADE END. AT SOME POINT THEY HAD TO KNOW PLUMBING. BUT THEN AGAIN THE TEST IS SO EASY THAT A PERSON TAKING A CRASH COURSE BEFORE THE STATE TEST COULD EASILY PASS JUST BY MEMORY.
      DOG IS EVERY JOURNEYMAN PLUMBER YOU EVER WORKED WITH QUAILFIED? DO YOU EVER ASK YOUSELF HOW DID THEY EVER MAKE IT THIS FAR? HAVN'T YOU EVER SENT SOMEONE HOME THAT WASN'T WORTH THE MONEY YOU WERE PAYING FOR THEM?
      I'M NOT SAYING THAT 50% ARE UNDERQUALIFIED, BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE A LARGER % TODAY THAN THERE WAS WHEN I FIRST STARTED AS AN APPRENTICE IN 1981. THIS ALSO HOLDS TRUE WITH ALL THE BUILDINGTRADES.

      THANK'S FOR YOUR INPUT DOG.

      RICK.
      Please do not take this personally. I don't think you read my post thoroughly. What I am saying is that the CONTRACTOR need not be an expert journeyman. The INSTALLER needs to be an expert journeyman. In some cases (with small companies) they are one and the same. What we need is a comprehensive testing and licensing system state wide for installers that is enforced.

      But this would only work if all contractors were willing to spend the money to train young plumbers, which they are not. Therefore, contracors can go on cring forever about the state of the trade, but nothing will change. Thus my sarcasm at this post. The very people who complain are the ones unwilling to effect change.

      In my opinion, the perfect system would be a cross between the California system we are familiar with, and the illinois system described by plumber. The contractors would have to pass the business and law exam, as well as the basic trade exam, and the journeyman would have to pass an extensive exam on installation. But to be honest, I don't see any change coming, so I'll remain sarcastic and sceptical.

      the dog
      the dog

      Comment


      • #18
        Part of what the PHCC does is to offer training for non-union shops. I agree all plumbers should be certified. The other problem we have is when you have one journeyman over seeing twenty laborers who the contractor calls plumbers.

        I have a job in Laughlin where all of the primary drains from the AC coils are tied into the trap arms of the master bathroom lavatories.

        The homeowners have complained for years about sewer gas. The county has even come out and inspected the community sewers even though the sewers were never turned over to the county.

        What's worst is this community (248 homes)is build on a hill and I've found over 100 homes which have fixtures below the upstream manhole and there is not a single backwater valve anywhere in the complex.

        So how did the contractor miss the backwater valves on his bid, how did the installers install the primaries on the wrong side of the trap and how did the inspector approve the job as installed?

        By the way that's just part of the problems on the site.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #19
          UTAH, I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. ALTHOUGH IF THE CITY INSPECTORS DON'T COME DOWN ON THE CONTRACTORS EITHER BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG, OR ARE TOO RUSHED TO LOOK AT THE JOB, THEN NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO KEEP THIS CYCLE FROM CONTINUING.
          2 EXAMPLES FROM 2 DIFFERENT RECENT JOBS. I WAS HIRED TO INSPECT THE PLUMBING PRIOR TO THE CITY INSPECTOR. FIRST JOB THE CONTRACTOR HAD NO CLUE ABOUT WASTE AND VENTS OR CODES. AFTER 4 PREINSPECTIONS FOR THE HOMEOWNER, I ADVISED THE CONTRACTOR TO TEAR OUT THE ABS AND I'LL HELP HIM LAY IT OUT PROPERLY. THIS WAS ON A FRIDAY. MONDAY AFTERNOON I GET A CALL FROM THE HOMEOWNER STATING THAT THE CONTRACTOR HAD AN INSPECTION AND WAS SIGNED OFF ON RUFF PLUMBING. I WENT THERE THAT AFTERNOON TO DISCOVER THE SYSTEM WAS NOT COMPLETED, NOTHING WAS CONNECTED UNDER THE BUILDING AND THE WRONG USE OF SAN TEES WAS STILL THERE. I WAS BLOWN AWAY TO SEE THE INSPECTORS SIGNATURE ON THE PERMIT. I CALLED HIS SUPERVISOR THAT ATERNOON TO VOICE MY CONCERNS. NEXT DAY THE SUPERVISOR AND ORIGINAL INSPECTOR CAME OUT TO RE-INSPECT THE JOB SIGNED OFF THE DAY PRIOR. NEEDLESS TO SAY THERE WAS A HUGH RED TAG LIST OF ITEMS TO CORRECT.
          THE POINT BEING WAS THAT IF THE HOMEOWNER DIDN'T HIRE ME TO PREINSPECT THE ORIGINAL INSTALLATION, THEN THE JOB WOULD HAVE BEEN COVERED UP AND A LIFETIME OF PROBLEMS WOULD HAVE HAUNTED THIS PROJECT.

          #2 EXAMPLE WAS THE CONTRACTOR THAT USED SAN TEES ON THEIR BACKS IN PLACE OF COMBIES. I EXPLAINED THE PROBLEM WITH THIS TO THE CONTRACTOR, HE SAID THIS IS WHAT THE INSPECTOR HAD REQUESTED ON PRIOR JOBS. AFTER EXPLAINING THE REASONING WITH THE CODE, HE WENT BACK TO REPLACE THE SAN TEE'S WITH COMBIES.
          I'M BACK, FELL ASLEEP WHILE TYPING.

          THESE ISSUES ONCE AGAIN TAND OUT ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE OF PLUMBING PRIMARILY. THE PLUMBERS ARE NOT QUALIFED, THE CONTRACTORS ARE OUT TO MAKE A QUICK BUCK, AND THE COMBINATION , (BMI) INSPECTOR IS NOT ENFORCING THE PLUMBING CODE AS IT WAS DESIGNED.
          THE BIG LOSER IS THE HOMEOWNER WHO PAID FOR AN INFERIOR JOB. THE LEGITAMIT CONTRACTOR WHO HAS TO COMPETE WITH OTHERS THAT FLY BY NIGHT.

          [ 07-31-2005, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: PLUMBER RICK ]

          Comment


          • #20
            Yeah it seems like I'm starting to see more and more san-tees which are used improperly. I told an older contractor he needed a figure fitting on a TI project and he looked at me like I was from outer space.

            Mark

            [ 07-31-2005, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: ToUtahNow ]
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by ToUtahNow:
              Today it seems like all you need to do to be a Plumbing Contractor is pay for a yellow page ad and own a pickup truck. Mark
              A sense of humor helps too.

              Lorax
              "Did you put the yellow key in the switch?" TOD 01/09/06

              Comment


              • #22
                After reading the examples above I can see a definite problem in residential inspections. For the most part the inspectors you are dealing with are general inspectors who do not have specific knowledge of of electrical, mecanical, or plumbing trades.

                On my end most in ispections are done by specialized inspectors, most of whom are knowledgable. The lack of budget money these cities are experiencing, has however caused problems. I many juristictions the inspectors work four days a week, and are also responsible for plan-checking, which results in inspection times reduced to Mon-Thur., 9:00AM to 3:00PM, with a lunch hour of 12-1PM. Coupled with the fact that inspection staffs have been reduced, the result is that an understaffed inspection unit has about 20 hours per week to fulfill inspection requests. On a project of any size the inspector simply does not have time to go over every fitting.

                We get what we are willing to pay for.

                That's why I maintain that we in the industry need to take the responsibility to train young plumbers, and to push for a hard-core licensing program. It has been my experience that qualified plumbers follow the codes wether they are being inspected or not.

                the dog
                the dog

                Comment


                • #23
                  Plumbdog10,

                  I give you another one and it's an installation a commercial inspector approved.

                  I have two 35 story towers full of luxury condos. The units have Jacuzzi Fiore jetted tubs with a built-in waterfall type spout. Due to the elevation of the tub spout there must be some type of backflow protection between the mixing valve and the spout.

                  As installed they used a spill resistant vacuum breaker hidden behind an access panel 12’ away in clothes closet. The consequence is when the vacuum breaker spills it spills inside the wall where you don’t see it until the carpets wet and the owner downstairs is calling. This condition floods units on a regular basis. Until I made my first inspection the engineering staff assumed it was normal maintenance.

                  Some of the condos have two of these tubs. A little over 80% of the tubs are installed 40’ from an outside wall. With some of the tubs the line to the spout from the vacuum breaker was even run overhead which makes the downstream side of the vacuum breaker about 6’ above the critical level of the vacuum breaker.

                  All of the tubs are installed under marble decks and have marble aprons. None of the marble can be removed without breaking the marble and all the marble in this 400 sq ft. bathroom is matching. Now I have to figure out how to correct the problem without changing the bathroom’s current look and use.

                  This job was designed by a mechanical engineer, approved at plan check, bided on by a licensed contractor, installed by a journeyman plumber (probably several as there are 100s of tubs) and approved by a commercial inspector.

                  The sad part is I happened to meet this inspector at a conference and he is now trying to figure out how to make it legal but he’s out of ideas. This is going to cost someone a lot of money to correct. At the end of the day it will be the Mechanical Engineer, the Developer, the General Contractor and the Plumbing Contractors insurance companies.

                  Mark

                  [ 07-31-2005, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: ToUtahNow ]
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Wow,

                    No offense but I had no clue California's building trades were in such a mess.

                    It is almost impossible to believe with a State as populous and modern as California that they do not require licensing of all of their journeymen. It is also very hard to believe that California does not require at least one officer or owner of a plumbing company to be a licensed and experienced journeyman.

                    Installing a vaccuum breaker inside a wall, access panel or not, is something even a 2 year apprentice should know better than to do.
                    It would be far better to allow a business man to learn accounting on his own and be tested on his plumbing knowledge.

                    No one can legally install plumbing here unless he has a license or is an apprentice working under the supervision of a journeyman who is, or is employed by, a licensed contractor. In fact each journeyman can only have 2 apprentices. This keeps the unscrupulous %^*$#(*& contractors from having one plumber and 25 apprentices.

                    The contractors may not be tested on how they count their beans but we know they, or another responsible officer in their company, have held a license for 5 years which means they have at least 10 years total in the industry.

                    We have our problems to be sure but after following what is going out there I think I shall just whistle and thank my lucky stars.
                    Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      plumber,

                      California allows a business to have an RMO of an RME in lieu of the prime owner being a contractor.

                      The RMO (resposible managment owner) must own a minimum of 20% of the business and have control over the trade portion of the business.

                      An RME (responsible management employee) must be full a full time employee with managment authority.

                      Today an RME must make his personal license inactive when he qualifies another business. Years ago an RME could qualify several businesses and there were guys where that was all they did. The RME would charge a couple hundred bucks a month and never would see a single job.

                      For the most part I think both California and Nevada have some pretty good contractors. However, we do get this contractors who come in and get jobs by under cutting everyone else. The only way to under cut everyone else is to either cheat on materials or labor. The cut-rate contractors don't last long but do do their damge before they go.

                      Our commercial and industrial side sees far fewer problems then our small residential.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        But are the RMOs or RMEs (sounds like names of rock bands) required to have any trade experience?

                        It would be great if Ill. tested a bit more about business smarts for the contracting side, but I would much rather we stayed where we are compared to California if it was either or..

                        Reading the posts on this site shows there are indeed some very knowlegeable plumbers and fitters there. And honest business people too. But it sounds like there are also a lot of phonies and wannabees. Course we have our problems also.

                        Our inspectors are required to be licensed plumbers and they have to take an additional test to qualify for their position, the additional test is a recent addition to our codes, A lot of the older inspectors had been away from the actual work for so long it was becoming apparent that they had forgotton much of the code and were enforcing their own ideas into it. This was leading to a myriad of problems in areas where we would deal with 5 or 6 different inspectors with their own different interpretations of the code.

                        There is a board of advisory plumbers that review the code and make reccomendations to the Dept. of Public Health as to any changes or deletions that may need to be made. The Ill. Dept. of Public health is the agency charged with administering the plumbing laws in our Land of Lincoln. These plumbers(I think) must be active in the trade.

                        A fine of up to 5000 dollars can be imposed upon a contractor doing plumbing work without a license. Repeat offenders can face small amounts of jail and serious misdemeanor charges.

                        The IEPA adminisiters our cross connection control programs and our backflow prevention device testers must also be licensed plumbers before we can be trained and certified to test backflow preventers.

                        We have a lot of fire protection sprinkler fitters come in from bordering states that get all bent out of shape when we tell them they must have an Illinois licensed plumber install their RPZ's and Double Checks, and that they must also have an Illinois IEPA Licensed Cross Connection Control Device Inspector test their system before they can place their systems into operation. They don't like it but tough its their problem.

                        At our next code retraining seminar, where the board of advisors is usually out in force, I might mention a bit about having our contractors tested for contract law. Though the ones that aren't very good with it don't last long anyway, it would be nice to advance and protect the trade a bit more.

                        One last note; building inspectors and structural engineers are NOT allowed to also be plumbing inspectors unless they have completed a 5 year plumbing apprenticeship and have passed the State plumbing exam. At that point they are eligable to take the test to become a plumbing inspector. This way we don't have carpenters, electricians or roofers or oversmart college kids trying to tell us how to do our work.

                        We all know all a carpenter needs to know is how to drive a nail, and they bend half of them.

                        And sparky is too busy taking breaks to do much of anything.
                        Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow:
                          Plumbdog10,

                          I give you another one and it's an installation a commercial inspector approved.

                          I have two 35 story towers full of luxury condos. The units have Jacuzzi Fiore jetted tubs with a built-in waterfall type spout. Due to the elevation of the tub spout there must be some type of backflow protection between the mixing valve and the spout.

                          As installed they used a spill resistant vacuum breaker hidden behind an access panel 12’ away in clothes closet. The consequence is when the vacuum breaker spills it spills inside the wall where you don’t see it until the carpets wet and the owner downstairs is calling. This condition floods units on a regular basis. Until I made my first inspection the engineering staff assumed it was normal maintenance.

                          Some of the condos have two of these tubs. A little over 80% of the tubs are installed 40’ from an outside wall. With some of the tubs the line to the spout from the vacuum breaker was even run overhead which makes the downstream side of the vacuum breaker about 6’ above the critical level of the vacuum breaker.

                          All of the tubs are installed under marble decks and have marble aprons. None of the marble can be removed without breaking the marble and all the marble in this 400 sq ft. bathroom is matching. Now I have to figure out how to correct the problem without changing the bathroom’s current look and use.

                          This job was designed by a mechanical engineer, approved at plan check, bided on by a licensed contractor, installed by a journeyman plumber (probably several as there are 100s of tubs) and approved by a commercial inspector.

                          The sad part is I happened to meet this inspector at a conference and he is now trying to figure out how to make it legal but he’s out of ideas. This is going to cost someone a lot of money to correct. At the end of the day it will be the Mechanical Engineer, the Developer, the General Contractor and the Plumbing Contractors insurance companies.

                          Mark
                          Yea, I agree, there is no easy answer to this. It should have been addressed early in the project, and for all I know it was. It is possible that the plumbing contractor did RFI the situation with the engineer, but was told to proceed. I have no way of knowing, at this point it doesn't matter.

                          A few questions though:

                          1) What is the existing air gap?

                          2) Where is the mixing valve located?

                          3) Is this happening in all of the units, or one or two? The no-spill vacuum breakers should not be discharging water, on the other hand, you mentioned that the down stream piping was higher that the vb. Is this true of all units or a few? Is this where the spillage is occuring?

                          4) If the inlet is feeding a cascading waterfall, is it not above the flood level rim of the fixture? I'd like to see a photo to get a better visualization.

                          5) Installing a backflow device in an access panel has the problem of not meeting the accesibility requirements for testing.

                          the dog

                          [ 07-31-2005, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: plumbdog10 ]
                          the dog

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by plumbdog10:
                            </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ToUtahNow:
                            Plumbdog10,

                            I give you another one and it's an installation a commercial inspector approved.

                            I have two 35 story towers full of luxury condos. The units have Jacuzzi Fiore jetted tubs with a built-in waterfall type spout. Due to the elevation of the tub spout there must be some type of backflow protection between the mixing valve and the spout.

                            As installed they used a spill resistant vacuum breaker hidden behind an access panel 12’ away in clothes closet. The consequence is when the vacuum breaker spills it spills inside the wall where you don’t see it until the carpets wet and the owner downstairs is calling. This condition floods units on a regular basis. Until I made my first inspection the engineering staff assumed it was normal maintenance.

                            Some of the condos have two of these tubs. A little over 80% of the tubs are installed 40’ from an outside wall. With some of the tubs the line to the spout from the vacuum breaker was even run overhead which makes the downstream side of the vacuum breaker about 6’ above the critical level of the vacuum breaker.

                            All of the tubs are installed under marble decks and have marble aprons. None of the marble can be removed without breaking the marble and all the marble in this 400 sq ft. bathroom is matching. Now I have to figure out how to correct the problem without changing the bathroom’s current look and use.

                            This job was designed by a mechanical engineer, approved at plan check, bided on by a licensed contractor, installed by a journeyman plumber (probably several as there are 100s of tubs) and approved by a commercial inspector.

                            The sad part is I happened to meet this inspector at a conference and he is now trying to figure out how to make it legal but he’s out of ideas. This is going to cost someone a lot of money to correct. At the end of the day it will be the Mechanical Engineer, the Developer, the General Contractor and the Plumbing Contractors insurance companies.

                            Mark
                            Yea, I agree, there is no easy answer to this. It should have been addressed early in the project, and for all I know it was. It is possible that the plumbing contractor did RFI the situation with the engineer, but was told to proceed. I have no way of knowing, at this point it doesn't matter.

                            A few questions though:

                            1) What is the existing air gap?

                            -2"

                            2) Where is the mixing valve located?

                            Factory installed into the tub deck and under a cover.

                            3) Is this happening in all of the units, or one or two? The no-spill vacuum breakers should not be discharging water, on the other hand, you mentioned that the down stream piping was higher that the vb. Is this true of all units or a few? Is this where the spillage is occuring?

                            The spillage will happen in all of them on occasion regardless of the dischgarge piping height. The really bad spillage is when a diaphram sticks and you get the entire 3/4" flow into the wall. Spill resistant vacuum breakers can still discharge that's why they have to be installed in a waterproof area.

                            4) If the inlet is feeding a cascading waterfall, is it not above the flood level rim of the fixture? I'd like to see a photo to get a better visualization.

                            There are two waterfalls. One is recirculated water and is 12"+ above the flood rim and the supply water is 2" below the flood rim. Page 12 & 13 will show the valve and spout configuration.

                            http://jacuzzi.com/pdf/ENGDESIGN.PDF

                            5) Installing a backflow device in an access panel has the problem of not meeting the accesibility requirements for testing.

                            While the installation is illegal, testing is doable because you can pull the canopy off and you only have to check the check valve for 1 pound in the direction of flow. Meaning a sight glass is all you need for testing. However that does bring up the point that theses valves needed to be certified at finish then once a year after that. I'm sure the installer never did anything.

                            the dog
                            </font>[/QUOTE]

                            [ 08-01-2005, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: ToUtahNow ]
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              DOG, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU FINALLY GOT THE POINT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO STRESS.

                              THE "COMBINATION RESIDENTIAL INSPECTOR". IF YOU READ FROM THE START OF MY POST YOU'LL SEE THIS IS THE SIDE OF THE PLUMBING CONTRACTING BUSINESS THAT NEEDS THE MOST HELP. FROM YOUR POSTS, I GET THE FEEL THAT ALL YOU WORK ON IS COMMERCIAL, INDUSTRIAL. I ALWAYS STATED THAT THE COMMERCIAL INSPECTOR IS TYPICALLY A FORMER PLUMBER OR PLUMBING CONTRACTOR. THEIR EXPERIENCE IS ALL PLUMBING. THEY INSPECT ONLY PLUMBING.

                              IT'S THE BMI INSPECTOR, AND RESIDENTIAL PLUMBER THAT THIS WHOLE TOPIC REALLY FOCUSED ON.
                              SURE I'VE SEEN IT ON THE COMMERCIAL END, BUT IN COMPARISON IT'S THE RESIDENTIAL END THAT NEEDS THE HELP.

                              NOW THAT WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE, (I THINK, AND HOPE) YOU CAN SEE WHAT I FACE ON A DAILY BASIS.
                              I TOO DID NEW CONSTRUCTION FROM 1981-1997. WORKING ON PROJECTS FROM APTS. CONDOS, HOTELS, SCHOOLS, OFFICES BUILDINGS. JOBS THAT LASTED FROM WEEKS TO MANY YEARS. FROM JUST A COUPLE OF PLUMBERS TO OVER 30 ON THE JOB AT ONCE. GOING FROM AN APPRENTICE TO THE JOB FOREMAN.
                              NOW AS THE OWNER OF MY OWN COMPANY. I SPECIALIZE IN WORK THAT REQUIRES A GREAT DEAL OF KNOWLEDGE AND TECHNOLOGY. SUCH AS CAMERA WORK AND LOCATING,SNAKING AND HYDRO-JETTING, PIPE FREEZING, TRENCHLESS PIPE REPLACEMENT, PROPRESS, T-DRILLING, COPPER VICTAULIC, CORE DRILLING AND SAW CUTTING, DIRECTIONAL BORING. AMONG OTHER THINGS. I OWN ALL OF THIS EQUIPMENT TOO. I WORK FOR SOME OF THE LARGEST PLUMBING CONTRACTORS IN SOUTHERN CALIF. AT SOME LOCATIONS THAT ALL OF US HAVE BEEN TO.

                              SO DOG YOU KEEP REFERRING TO ME AS A SERVICE PLUMBER. WELL IF THAT'S WHAT YOU LIKE TO CALL IT, SO BE IT. I ALWAYS GIVE MY CLIENTS THE BEST SERVICE. ALL THIS WITHOUT ANY MONEY SPENT ON ADVERTISING. I GUESS A GOOD REPUTATION IS WORTH MORE THAN ANY YELLOW PAGE AD. I'M HERE FOR THE LONG RUN, NOT THE QUICK BUCK.

                              HOPE THIS FINALLY CLEARS UP YOUR IDEA OF ME.
                              P.S. I DO HAVE A VERY GOOD SENSE OF HUMOR, BUT I DO TAKE MY WORK AND TRADE VERY SERIOUS, AS YOU CAN SEE.

                              RICK

                              [ 08-01-2005, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: PLUMBER RICK ]

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                MARK, SWITCHING TO A PRESSURE STYLE VAC. BREAKER OR DOUBLE CHECK VALVE SHOULD WORK. QUESTION IS IT LEGAL FOR THIS APPLICATION. AN RP VALVE WILL BE THE SAME PROBLEM AS YOU ALREADY HAVE.
                                I HAVE A BUILDING WITH BIDETS. THEY HAVE A SPILLAGE ISSUE WHEN THE CERAMIC ARTISTIC BRASS VALVES DEVELOP A DRIP. NOT ENOUGH VOLUME TO PROPERLY LIFT AND SEAL THE FLOAT.
                                RICK.

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