Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

UNDERQUALIFIED CONTRACTORS, PLUMBERS, INSPECTORS.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK:
    MARK, OUT OF CURIOSITY, WHAT BRAND OF TOILET AND BALLCOCK WAS THE PROBLEM ASSOCIATED WITH.

    ABOUT 3 YEARS AGO AMERICAN STANDARD CAME OUT WITH A NEW BALLCOCK NAMED "THE SMART ONE". EVERYONE OF THESE I INSTALLED, I HAD TO REPLACE WITHIN 9 MONTHS. AMERICAN STANDARD PULLED THEM FROM THE MARKET AND REPLCED THEM WITH A FLUIDMASTER. ALSO I'VE REPLACED DOZENS OF FLUIDMASTER /KOHLER BALLCOKS WITH SHANKS THAT LEAK. ALL OF THESE HAVE BEEN ON THE BALLCOCKS THAT WERE MADE FOR KOHLER AND HAVE THAT CURLEY FLOW RESTRICTOR INSTALLED IN THE BOTTOM OF THE SHANK. IT'S ALSO APPROX. 1.5'' TALLER THAN A FLUIDMASTER 400-A BALLCOCK.

    WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS?

    RICK
    Rick,

    On this one I'll have to answer you off forum a later as my motorcycle is idling in the driveway.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #92
      Rick,

      I’m not sure what the problem was with the American Standard ballcock. Initially when manufacturers first started building plastic ballcocks everyone accepted that they were of poor quality and would not last. If you had a plastic Coast Foundry ballcock fail you just replaced them.

      As Fluidmaster started becoming more popular people expected them to last longer. The plastic all of the manufacturer’s were using was not compatible with chlorine in water. As almost all water companies add chlorine to water the ballcocks would get brittle and break. Today Fluidmaster has changed the materials so chlorine is no longer a problem.

      The problem you have seen in the Kohler water closets with the 400A type ballcock was likely an installation problem. The problem was limited to the Wellworth water closets. The 400A is to be tightened hand tight and a quarter turn. I actually don’t go beyond hand tight.

      Anyways Kohler uses pneumatic tools to install the ballcock nuts. The proper tightening with the pneumatic tools is I think 2 foot pounds. When shanks started breaking on water closet ballcocks it was found they had been over tightened at the factory. When they checked the ballcocks at the factory the nuts were anywhere from 2 ft pounds all the way up to 20 ft pounds in torque.

      This additional torque caused small microscopic cracks which over time caused the shanks to crack right above the ballcock nuts. If you happened to have a supply line with a tight bend just below the ballcock it would generally crack even sooner.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #93
        Yes overtightning is a problem both at the factory and in the field. (on a lot of things) When the first fluidmasters came out they had a brass base and spud with plastic only on the riser and float. It would be good to return to that design.

        Hand tight and a quarter turn will result in a lot of call backs for seepage leaks. I think you will find very few ballcocks in the USA tightened so loosely. Also what is hand tight for some is already wrench tight for others. There needs to be a set torque specification on packaging if you want to eliminate overtightening.

        You must remember also that housewives today are very harried, they often have full time jobs to go with their cleaning responsibilities and they work hard and fast. The plumbing under a toilet takes a beating from mop heads, small trash cans and brush holders and who knows what else. The plastic spud portruding below the toilet is the weak link in the water supply to the tank. Even a properly tightened ballcock with a plastic shank is very vunerable to breakage.

        A return to brass would eliminate 98% of such problems.
        Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

        Comment


        • #94
          In the old days some water closets required plumbers putty to get a ggod seal.The Kohler engineers explained to me that with the newer water closets the sealing surface has gotten so good you don't need to go too tight.

          When I install a fluidmaster I push down on the hood enough to comprees the washer and then go hand tight. I also use a little dope on the washer to keep the washer from drying out but the engineers tell me with the new washers it's not necessary.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #95
            thank,s for this forum rick! i feel right at home in the unqualified plumber ,con,t section.
            i,m glad to see utah uses pipe dope on fill rubbers!. i,ve been ashamed to admit it myself. sometimes it,s the only way to stop tank bolt leaks. and thank,s for the welcome back guys!
            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by ToUtahNow:
              plumber,

              I like the apprenticship program and the drawings.

              When I took my Contractors test they gave me plans of a seventeen story building and I had to do fixture loading at certain points.

              All it was was simple math and knowing the tables, a drawing would have been a better test.

              Mark
              Utah,

              When and in what state did you take that exam in?
              the dog

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by plumbdog10:
                </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ToUtahNow:
                plumber,

                I like the apprenticship program and the drawings.

                When I took my Contractors test they gave me plans of a seventeen story building and I had to do fixture loading at certain points.

                All it was was simple math and knowing the tables, a drawing would have been a better test.

                Mark
                Utah,

                When and in what state did you take that exam in?
                </font>[/QUOTE]California Late 1980 or early 1981
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by ToUtahNow:
                  </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by plumbdog10:
                  </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ToUtahNow:
                  plumber,

                  I like the apprenticship program and the drawings.

                  When I took my Contractors test they gave me plans of a seventeen story building and I had to do fixture loading at certain points.

                  All it was was simple math and knowing the tables, a drawing would have been a better test.

                  Mark
                  Utah,

                  When and in what state did you take that exam in?
                  </font>[/QUOTE]California Late 1980 or early 1981
                  </font>[/QUOTE]And part of your test involved plans for a seventeen story building?

                  the dog
                  the dog

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Not a full set but a single folded sheet with the DWV system on it which you had to return to the proctor without any marks on it or you voided your test.
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • The only reason I bring this up, is that it seems a little strange. Fixture loading (i.e. minimum demand) would be the same for any fixture, regardless if it is in the basement, or on top of the empire state building. To figure the demand would not require simple math, but memorization, or a quick glance at the plumbing code.

                      If you are refering to pipe sizing, on a seventeen story building, that requires more than simple math, because, depending on the the pressure of the water service, you may be dealing with resovior tanks and booster pumps. If they gave you the pressure at each floor, the pipe sizing would be the same as figuring the water supply of any single story building, if you are sizing it from a point of connection on that floor.

                      If you are refering to drain and waste demand, again it would not require simple math, but memorization. Figuring DWV systems on a high-rise are also more complex, because it involves relief vents, etc.

                      the dog
                      the dog

                      Comment


                      • Was writting my post when you posted yours.

                        So they gave you a DWV plan for a seventeen story building and asked you to figure ...?

                        the dog
                        the dog

                        Comment


                        • As I stated it was a DWV system and yes you had to memorize both the DFU and the maximum fixture loading for horizontal and vertical drainage piping tables. Of course by the time of taking the test they had been memorized for some time just by working with them. Either way it was easy math for me.

                          As I recall there was somewhere around 20 questions related to the drawing. There may also have been some questions related to length but after 24 years I don't remember. I do remember we had to bring an architectural scale so likely there were questions related to length.

                          When did you take your test and weren't you required to memorize the fixture tables?

                          [ 08-06-2005, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: ToUtahNow ]
                          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by plumbdog10:
                            Was writting my post when you posted yours.

                            So they gave you a DWV plan for a seventeen story building and asked you to figure ...?

                            the dog
                            As I recall there were deltas on the plans with some having letters and some having numbers and they might ask how many fixture units there were at a certain location. They’d also mix it up and ask you what size pipe or fitting was required at a certain location.

                            Mark

                            [ 08-06-2005, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: ToUtahNow ]
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ToUtahNow:
                              As I stated it was a DWV system and yes you had to memorize both the DFU and the maximum fixture loading for horizontal and vertical drainage piping tables. Of course by the time of taking the test they had been memorized for some time just by working with them. Either way it was easy math for me.

                              As I recall there was somewhere around 20 questions related to the drawing. There may also have been some questions related to length but after 24 years I don't remember. I do remember we had to bring an architectural scale so likely there were questions related to length.

                              When did you take your test and weren't you required to memorize the fixture tables?
                              Took mine in the early 90's. We were given a drawing of a two story house. If I recall there were only two or three questions that refered to it. They were basic at best. Something like: "How many water closets are in this house?"

                              There were alot of sizing questions, but they were on the text part of the test. They would give an iso. drawing and ask you to size various sections.

                              We too had to bring a scale ruler, and I remember using it on a sheet of paper they gave us. It had several lines, and we had to give the measurement based on various scales.

                              I studied alot for the law/business exam, but very little for the trade exam. I had been in the trade so long I breezed through it. To be honest, and I think you would agree, the trade exam was pretty basic.

                              the dog
                              the dog

                              Comment


                              • As basic as the C-36 was the B-1 was almost embarrassing. I took my B-1 in 1985 and I think at the time my oldest son (13 years old) would have passed it.

                                When people tell me they failed the first time they took their test I wonder how anyone could have four years in the field and fail the test.

                                Mark
                                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X