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  • #16
    Thats a good point dog, I am guilty of that myself. Will make an effort to be more resepctful of thread topics.

    Utah,

    Grounding to the water lines is no longer allowed in many communities here for the reason of exactly what happened to me. Plus as soon as some nimrod comes along and splices a piece of cpvc in the line with compression couplings the grounding quality of the waterline has been greatly diminished.

    One upscale community in my area insists on all water meters being installed in basements, these meters have a plastic body. Unless a wire is run from the electric panel over to the copper service line behind the meter a water line ground is useless. Also even though these homes are extremely expensive for these people to buy, some of the contractors are running that cheap blue poly into the house which negates the ground all together.

    Tool, I wouldn't worry about doing anything to your ground unless you are going to be working on your lines.
    Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by plumbdog10:
      Utah and Rick,

      You guys should stay on the topic, or, start a new thead, or, e-mail each other. Tool started a thread, it should be honored.

      I've seen forums which become private message centers for members. They become irrelavant for occasional members. Please honor the topic at hand.

      the dog
      Guilty as charged but you should notice by my last post I told Rick I would start a new topic to answer his question. I let a few posts get in front of me before I realize we'd hijacked the topic.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #18
        plumber,

        That's interesting, I believe it would not comply with the NEC which we use out here. I think tool is still better off checking with his local B&S before he changes anything.

        I have always been told a grounding rod is not always enough of a earth neutral return to cause a breaker to trip. Some areas even require a bond from the water to the gas line.

        Of course now with plastic water mains and water systems they must have figured something out that works.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #19
          my 97 nec book recomends two ground rods.
          we did a service change in sf and it was signed of with two.
          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

          Comment


          • #20
            I always try to be very careful with electric as I am not fully trained with it. It it gets much more complicated than black to negative red to positive then I am close to being over my head.
            Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by plumber:
              I always try to be very careful with electric as I am not fully trained with it. It it gets much more complicated than black to negative red to positive then I am close to being over my head.
              Plumber,

              I'm all over that. Electricity scares me, because I am not an expert.

              a worried dog
              the dog

              Comment


              • #22
                PLUMBER AND DOG, GOOD THING YOU'RE BOTH SCARED OF ELECTRICTY.
                PLUMBER, WHAT YOU DESCRIBED APPLIES TO YOUR STANDARD AUTOMOTIVE 12 VOLT DC. SYSTEM. BLACK NEGATIVE AND RED POSITIVE.

                ON AN A.C. SYSTEM BOTH BLACK AND RED ARE POSITIVE. WHITE IS NEGATIVE AND GREEN IS GROUND. BE CAREFULL ON LARGE GAUGE WIRE #2AWG. AND LARGER. TYPICALLY ONLY COMES IN BLACK. THEY USE COLOR ELECTRICAL TAPE TO COLOR CODE THE WIRES AT THE ENDS.

                HOPE THIS GIVES YOU A LITTLE MORE COMFORT AROUND POWER.
                MAYBE THAT'S WHY WATER AND POWER DON'T MIX.

                WOW, WE ALMOST HAD A "HOT DOG". AND A FRYED PLUMBER. THEN WHAT WOULD UTAH AND I DO????


                RICK.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Rick,

                  Thank you for the clarification. Ummm... I was simply using a bit of self depreciating sarcastic wit to make a point. Most people with trade experience know some of the basics about all of the trades simply by being around it for so long and sharing meals with other tradesmen. Some of us have even gone to college so as to futher our knowledge about other things, even if only for personal advancement and satisfaction.

                  The first time I was zapped happened as a teenager working as an apprentice. Before disconnecting an electric water heater that was leaking, I dutifully went to the fuse panel and made sure the fuses marked water heater were screwed all of the way out. What I failed to think of and was never warned to be on the look out for, was an improperly marked electrical box. Standing on a wet floor with wet hands, wet shoes and a wet non insulated screwdriver I found out that the fuses I had unscrewed indeed went somewhere else and not to the electric water heater. It was an experience that can be described as very much less than pleasant. Black to positive red to negative was a joke.

                  I know enough to tinker in my own home somewhat safely, I would never attempt to professionally do anything more than trouble shooting plumbing appliances and appurtenances that I have been trained with unless it were my own. Rick you really need to spend some more time with others in the trades besides just going to trade shows.
                  Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    PLUMBER, GLAD YOU KNOW MORE THAN YOU MADE OUT TO BE. I TOO HAVE PICKED UP MANY DIFFERENT TRADES BY OSMOSIS. IN FACT I AM STILL ASKED BY LONG TIME CLIENTS TO DO THEIR ELECTRICAL, AND APPLIANCE REPAIRS. I TYPICALLY TELL THEM NO, AS I DON'T WANT TO WORRY ABOUT MY INSURANCE LIABILITY CLAUSE.

                    AS FAR AS SPENDING TIME WITH OTHER TRADES PEOPLE. I CAN SAY THAT 99% OF MY TIME I DO. THE TRADE SHOWS COME ONLY 1 OR 2 TIMES A YEAR.
                    BY THE WAY, WHERE DO YOU FIND OUT ABOUT NEW TOOLS AND MATERIALS IF IT WASN'T FOR THE TRADE SHOWS, COUNTER DAYS, OR TRADE MAGAZINES? IF YOU WANT TO HAVE THE NEWEST AND LASTEST EQUIPTMENT OUT THERE, YOU NEED TO ATTEND SOME OF THESE SHOWS. I DON'T GO FOR THE FREE DOUGHNUTS.
                    I STILL HAVE MY ORIGINAL SEESNAKE VIDEO CAMERA. THIS WAS MADE BY THE CO. THAT NOW MAKES THEM FOR RIDGID. IF IT WASN'T FOR THE TRADE SHOW, I WOULD HAVE HAD TO WAIT 2 MORE YEARS AND 50% MORE MONEY FOR THE SAME EXACT CAMERA. PS. NOW I OWN 7 CAMERAS AND YES THEY ARE RIDGID SEESNAKES.

                    BY THE WAY I PLAY SOFTBALL EVERY FRIDAY NIGHT ON A TEAM CALLED "THE TRADESMEN". MADE UP OF PLUMBERS, ELECTRICIANS AND OTHERS IN THE TRADE. SO YOU SEE I DO MORE THAN WORK AND GO TO TRADE SHOWS.

                    RICK.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      You answered your own question with your own statement Rick. Plus this little contraption we have been communicating with is a geat source of information. As far as letting on to how much we know, tell us Rick. Do you play poker? When meeting a client, new neighbor or even an in law for the first time, do you tell them everything you know about every subject?

                      But we are hi-jackiing a post here and those answers are best left to a different thread out of respect for tools posted subjects.
                      Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        PLUMBER, DON'T MAKE STUPID ASSUMPTIONS, THEN EXPECT ME NOT TO RESPOND.
                        IF ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS PUT RUMORS OUT THERE, THEN THAT'S YOUR M.O.
                        YOU MADE A STATEMENT, I ANSWERED. NOW YOU JUMP ON ME FOR ANSWERING.
                        YOU POST YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE OF ELECTRICAL, DOG AGREES WITH YOU. WHO KNOWS HOW MANY OTHERS WILL LISTEN TO THESE DANGEROUS SUGGESTIONS. I POST A CORRECTION TO PROTECT YOU AND THE OTHERS READING THIS. YOU SAY "I HAVE NO LIFE OUTSIDE OF TRADE SHOWS"
                        AND YOU EXPECT ME TO JUST LAY BACK AND IGNORE IT.
                        I SPEAK AND TELL THE TRUTH. I DON'T HIDE THE FACTS. I DON'T PLAY "POKER" WITH MY CLIENTS.
                        I'M NOT A SLACKER AND A FINGER POINTER. MAYBE YOU SHOULD COME CLEAN AND NOT PASS THE BUCK ABOUT YOUR LACK OF RESPECT AND KNOWLEDGE. IF YOU'RE ALL YOU SAY YOU ARE, THEN MAYBE YOU CAN SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND NOT MAKE QUESTIONABLE STATEMENTS.

                        YOU KNOW HOW TO CONTACT ME IF YOU REALLY WANTED TO DISCUSS THIS FURTHER.

                        PLUMBER, START A NEW POST FOR YOURSELF. HERE'S A SUGGESTION THAT FITS YOU.
                        "I'M SMART, YOUR NOT"

                        RICK

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Don't get all snitty.
                          Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Rick,

                            Never talk to others about lack of respect until you learn how to post without capital letters. Its considered shouting or yelling. It is a complete sign of disrespect by you towards everyone that you will not follow the same common courtesy that everyone else shows to each other. You are not special.

                            Also I am sorry if you cannot recognize self depreciating humor. I post like that so as to show humility and in the above case to state that I am not an electrician.

                            Have I posted my resume with all of my credentials? NO. And I am not going to. Suffice it to say that I am a professional plumber with decades of experience doing a vast array of various things within the piping industry. Yes, there are accredited community colleges available to all for the price of admission that can teach the basics of electricity, HVAC and other related items.. Did not know that posting every little night or weekend class I ever took over the course of a lifetime was a prerequisit for posting here.

                            Tool, Everyone but Rick has apologized for changing the subject on your thread. I apologize again.
                            Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              PLUMBER, I MORE ATTEMPT TO ANSWER YOUR STATEMENT. AS YOU CAN SEE, I'VE TYPED IN ALL CAPITALS SINCE DAY 1. LOOK BACK AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED. SEEMS LIKE THIS WAS DISCUSSED IN DETAIL A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.

                              NOW LETS TALK ABOUT YOUR PARADE. SEEMS TO GO LIKE THIS. BUY AMERICAN. DON'T BUY FROM COMMUNIST CHINA. I WON'T BUY ANY RIDGID JUNK MADE IN CHINA. BLA BLA BLA.
                              90% OF YOUR POST ARE ABOUT THE SAME OLD THING. 5% ARE OF REAL GENUINE HELP. AND THE FINAL 5% ARE ABOUT ME.
                              WHY NOT DROP ME AND THE CHINA TALK AND GIVE 100% OF YOUR EFFORT INTO HELPING OTHERS. SORT OF WHAT THIS WHOLE FORUM IS ABOUT.
                              READ BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF MY POST. BEFORE YOU STARTED PICKING ON ME, 95% OF MY POST WERE WRITTEN TO HELP OTHERS.
                              I BELIEVE YOU AND DOG WERE THE ONES THAT GOT TOOL SO UPSET HE LEFT.
                              I ALSO BELIEVE TOOL HAS ASKED FOR ADVICE AND I'VE GIVEN HIM MORE ADVISE THAN ANYONE ELSE. NON OF WHICH QUESTIONED HIS ABILITY.
                              SO DO US ALL A FAVOR. STOP QUESTIONING MY ABILTIES AND I'LL STOP REPLYING TO ALL YOUR FALSE STATEMENTS.
                              YOU MIGHT KNOW HOW TO TYPE, BUT I KNOW HOW TO PLUMB. THIS IS NOT SCHOOL.
                              ONE LAST "EGO BOOSTER" FOR YOU. WHERE DID YOU FINISH IN YOUR APPRENTICESHIP CLASS? YOU CAN ONLY GUESS WHERE I FINISHED.
                              SHOW SOME OF YOUR KNOWLEDGED OF THE TRADE, LEAVE THE POLITICS FOR ANOTHER ARENA.

                              TOOL, HOPE THAT YOUR QUESTIONS WERE ANSWERED EARLIER IN YOUR POST. BUT YOU KNOW HOW IT IS TO GET PICKED ON. KEEP THEM COMING TOOL.

                              RICK.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Rick, thank,s again. i love that little pump, it saves so much water. also it,s nice to step into the shower with no wait. i will install another one in a week for a customer.
                                in the past on a large remodel we replaced all copper and c. i. in sf i was able to run a return line. but the manifold is cost effective in many homes ,ifeel.
                                the internet is wonderful,for info. i was a cert. welder in my pile buck days and still weld on projects. i,m on weld talk ,learning, and giving. i find it interisting what some people say on line. it,s SAFE! in a barroom ,they know i could drop them on ther *** in a heartbeat.
                                be well tool
                                I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                                Comment

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