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  • Waterless Urinals

    Over the past couple of years I've read about "waterless urinals" in the plumbing journals. It has been my understanding that they are used in Australia.

    I seen one the other day in a Burger King in Pico Rivera, California. It was an older building, so it was a recent installation.

    My questions are:

    1) Is this legal in California? I don't think it is.

    2) Does anyone have experience with these fixtures?

    3) What are your opinions?

    the dog

    ps. It was made by Sloan. Or at least that't what the decal said. I have no other info, I was only a customer taking a piss.

    dog

    [ 11-12-2005, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: plumbdog10 ]
    the dog

  • #2
    Here is some interesting info. http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/...urinals12.html
    info for all: http://www.hoistman.com http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/index....wwtoolinfoforu --- "I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."

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    • #3
      dog,

      I attended a seminar in Las vegas where waterless urinals were covered. My undestanding is the trap seal is replaced by a blue fluid of some type. In some urinals you need to replace the fluid every once in a while where the other has a canister.

      IAPMO is fighting them real hard which means they must not be UPC approved and as such not approved in California. However, Government project are exempt and have used them with mixed results.

      I have not seen the Sloan urinal yet. I have seen the Falcon which is a spin off of the original manufacturer.

      Mark

      [ 11-12-2005, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: ToUtahNow ]
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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      • #4
        I saw a demonstration of one of these at a Sloan seminar. Anyone familiar with urinal drains that are not flushed clear with water should have serious reservations about these.

        Time will tell. But I don't think they will be around for more than a few years.

        And how much are they going to pay that poor sap who has to change those cartriges?
        Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by plumber:
          I saw a demonstration of one of these at a Sloan seminar. Anyone familiar with urinal drains that are not flushed clear with water should have serious reservations about these.

          Time will tell. But I don't think they will be around for more than a few years.

          And how much are they going to pay that poor sap who has to change those cartriges?
          It would have to be a helluva lot more than I make to have me do it. As a matter of fact, I prefer to pull toilets over urinals any day.

          the dog
          the dog

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          • #6
            Agreed, urinals are disgusting. That people want to take flushing out of that equation astounds me.

            Our code in Illinois requires water to all fixtures. It is a good strong code and I see no reason to change it.

            I am glad for papadans link as it let us down- Staters know we need to be writing some letters. No one around here knew of this "trial".
            Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

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            • #7
              Yes, urinals ARE quite disgusting. And when you get a clogged one, you can bet half the time you are in for a miserable experience. On many, the traps are just too small to get any kind of a snake to pass through them, can't even get a 1/4" cable to go without taking risk of cracking porcelain, so many times you are left duct taping a plastic bag over it as you pour Calci-Solv in it and cross your fingers it eats it up and clears the trap.The reason this happens is urine salts build up in them, and in places like bars and restaurants that serve beer and alcohol it's really bad, seems these salts are more prevalent in alcohol drinkers. And this is where I question the effectiveness of these waterless urinals. How on earth do they get rid of all the urinary salt??? The stuff builds up quick and I can't see how not flushing it out with something will keep the trap clear for long.

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              • #8
                AZ,

                At the seminar the speaker said "some places will have to change the cartridges more than others" yeah, like thats going to happen.

                If they do start putting these in, in about three or four years there will be a lot of work retrofitting toilet rooms to install water lines to flush urinals so the buldings quit smelling like latrines. MPO
                Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by plumber:
                  AZ,

                  At the seminar the speaker said "some places will have to change the cartridges more than others" yeah, like thats going to happen.

                  If they do start putting these in, in about three or four years there will be a lot of work retrofitting toilet rooms to install water lines to flush urinals so the buldings quit smelling like latrines. MPO
                  Agree. If you have something better, let's do it. But, if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

                  the dog
                  the dog

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                  • #10
                    i did a job at a new park today in santa monica. the park has not officially opened yet. the urinals are waterless. fortunatly the plumber, (a good friend of mine) roughed in water to all 3 urinals behind an access panel. sooner or later the park will use this water.

                    how is a fixture suppose to be self cleaning without water to wash off the china? does the park janator wash these urinals daily?
                    the fixture states that 45,000 gallons of water a year can be saved. at a savings of .6 to 1 gallon per flush.

                    rick.

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                    • #11
                      "fortunatly the plumber, (a good friend of mine) roughed in water to all 3 urinals"

                      How did he sneak that into the bid? Did he convince them they will eventually need it? lol. If so, and I was the customer, that would send off BIG red flags in my head.

                      "how is a fixture suppose to be self cleaning without water"

                      That's what I would like to know too. All I can say is it's gonna need one helluva urinal block to keep the smell at bay.

                      "fixture states that 45,000 gallons of water a year can be saved"

                      Yeh, and the new water saving toilets they are forcing us all to buy now say something similar. And we all know how WELL they work, don't we? That is, those of you who have done drain cleaning. And those home-owners who have had to call those drain guys with auger in hand. haha.

                      I have a friend in that business here who is building a house, since nothing but water saving toilets are available here retail anymore, he says he is gonna become a smuggler.....a smuggler of 2 full size toilets from CANADA. LOL

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                      • #12
                        OK, I'm done amusing myself for now....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          trade show demonstration ! i can just imagine the poor vendor drinking endless water to give yet another demo
                          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                          • #14
                            az, as i mentioned these urinals were at a public park in santa monica. not a private residence. the city was thinking ahead.
                            the first real exposure to using one of these was at a public library also in santa monica approx. 2 years ago. can't say if they switched over since i haven't been back. just needed to look up a code in another trade. my gut feeling is that the mens room in a public library is not as demanding as a public park.

                            rick.

                            ps. the newer low flow flush fine. try the american standard champion toilet or the toto g-max line of toilets. the real issue is in the waste piping downstream. especially with older poorly graded c/i systems. even with a properly installed new system, stoppages can be an issue. prime example was a job that had a powder room toilet and lav 60' from any other fixtures. this was a constant paper stoppage until i advised to flush clean water before and after. the building was a multi million dollar 3 story condo in beverly hills. bad part is that there is no way to connect any closer to any other fixtures.

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                            • #15
                              Rick, great post and info, thanks.

                              About the new water saving toilets, the issue I'm referring to is the size of the tanks themselves. They're only 1.6 gal. or thereabouts. The problem is, obviously, toilets work primarily off gravity, and with these newer tanks there simply is'nt enough water capacity to give a decent flush. Sure, if you install one in a home with an old man and woman living in it, it should be fine, but when you have apartment buildings and hotels putting them in, or homes with children and guests, etc, they inevitably plug up time and again. You put just a tad too much toilet paper in em and plug city. There just is'nt enough water in the tank to give a strong flush, without maybe a power assist unit. When I did sewer and drain work exclusively, I would often have the SAME customers calling me back every few months or so for the same plugged toilet. They wanted to know why it kept plugging up, as compared to their OLD toilet. I would look around, and almost always see kids or a large family living in such residences (the hotels and office buildings that had them obviously saw alot of use too) and that would tell me one thing....that the water savers just are'nt giving a strong enough flush to handle above average use, if somebody throws an extra scrap of toilet paper in it, or accidentally drops some foreign object in it, it's all over and it needs to be augered. You just can't substitute water volume in anything that depends on gravity.

                              They are awesome for sewer and drain companies, horrible on homeowners, and i can't tell you how many times I have talked motel operators and restaurant owners to just get rid of the things and install a real commercial toilet. Unless they like paying me 100$ every 3 months.

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