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  • #16
    Here in Kentucky we don't touch that flex pipe except for wardflex on gas line. Are you guys talking about that corrogated copper crap with compression fittings? If not are you refering to braided stainless steel connectors on water heaters? Call me old fasioned, but it's hard pipe or nothin' 'round here. I usually use the factory installed insulated nipples and pull the heat traps out of them if they're in there. Moving parts go bad. If there are no nipples, I use di-electric male x sweat unions. It eliminates the need for a brass nipple. And never a scrap of galvanized in a copper system - electrolisis will eat it up in a week.

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    • #17
      dog, not sure what you mean by "toasted". maybe because i was up at 4:52 am? no big deal, i did get my beauty rest in.

      these flexes, watts are available at home depot. the watts are a cheap chinese knock off of a good brand. their stainless braided water heater flexes are the ones i've had an issue with. if you take a good look at the construction and design of these, you'll agree that they won't hold up or function as promised.

      one of the main ingredients that attack the stainlees flexes is chlorine. typically found around any washing machine or stored under a kitchen sink cabinet. this is why brass craft has designed their flexes with a polymer braid. looks like stainless, but it's a plastic polymer. this is less likely to blow out due to a rotted braid.

      tool, as far as the flexes leaching a gooey black deposit into the tub. this was true years ago when the rubber used in their design didn't hold up to the chlorines and chlormines used in our treated water. try changing these flexes to the new ones and you should be fine.

      dog, please explain your comments. i'll be up a little longer.

      rick.

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      • #18
        Rick,

        I think dog is referring to the new Watts FloodSafe supplies. Here is a link:

        http://floodsafe.watts.com/

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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        • #19
          Rick,

          My post was not meant to be offensve. It was just not on the subject I was refering to (see Utah's post above). By toasted I meant you seemed to be with out lack of sleep or drunk, or other. None of which bothered me. I simply meant I respect your opinion on new plumbing products, and your post did not fulfill what I would normally expect your informed posts to be. So I was asking for a second response from you.

          That is all.

          the dog
          the dog

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          • #20
            dog, i might have vered off topic a little. i was referring to the gas flex that has this newer shut off in it. then i brought up the water flex not being able to work down the road. then finally the hard water topic. referring to what i see going on in beverly hills with their high priced faucets and hard water.
            i probably went too many directions all at 1 time and threw you for a loop. hopefully i explained it better the next post.

            just a little side note. do you remember the pre ball valve angle stops of 15 years ago. they had no packing and were a 1/4 turn valve. they were not the ball valves as we use today. they were made of a "space age rubber composite". when the brass craft rep came to the job to show them to me, i told him that they would be problems. they didn't have any way to tell if they were open or shut from looking at them. you had to actually turn them to test. they didn't have a packing nut. well to no avail, they were introduced. i' sure that the next time you come across one of these you will end up replacing them when attempt to shut off the water. either they won't shut or they will leak at the handle. like i said before. they need more real life plumbers and less desk top rocket scientist.

            these too will fail in time. probably sooner than later. if anything they will be a nuience when a person removes the aereator to flush out the line. don't even think of using them on galvanized water lines. mark my words.

            rick.

            ps. dog i don't drink, smoke, or do drugs.never have. just keep me away from sweets and soda.
            rick.

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            • #21
              Rick,

              To be honest with you I've never been a big fan of angle-stops in general. Yea, of course I use them, they are the industry standard, but I've seen even the best of them not hold after extended periods.

              I can't remember which company it was, far too many years, but a national restraunt chain that I did quite a few buildings for demanded that standard ball valves be installed at every fixture. It was kind of a pain, but I thought it was a good idea.

              the dog
              the dog

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              • #22
                First make sure youre local code allows a di-electric nipple, cause mine don't, also the vacuum breaker is a factor in an apllication raised above ground, third heat traps are also becoming required by code and lastly make sure a backflow preventor is not installed on the system or you will be required to add an expantion tank. P.S. Not to be rude but who pulled the permit to replace youre GAS water heater, and shouldn't he or she have that answer for you????

                [ 10-29-2005, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: Quescodeplumb ]
                christopher

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                • #23
                  Using factory nipples with the copper flex lines, dialectrics are'nt needed. It's redundant, since the flex lines connects already act as dialectrics themselves.

                  Dialectrics are also no longer required on hydronic boilers here. It is now totally code to simply join copper straight to iron (though I try to avoid that if possible anyway). Dialectrics are more trouble than they are worth in many instances and code requirements finally have recognized that issue.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by AZPlumber:
                    Using factory nipples with the copper flex lines, dialectrics are'nt needed. It's redundant, since the flex lines connects already act as dialectrics themselves.

                    Dialectrics are also no longer required on hydronic boilers here. It is now totally code to simply join copper straight to iron (though I try to avoid that if possible anyway). Dialectrics are more trouble than they are worth in many instances and code requirements finally have recognized that issue.
                    Yea, that may be your code, but I would not reccomend joining copper to iron with no diaelectric joint. You can offer an argument between a diaeletric union and a piece of brass, which there is a contoversy over that, but to say make a direct connection, I would have to disagree with.

                    Keep in mind that any code is a "minimun" standard. You are still required to be a plumber.

                    the dog
                    the dog

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                    • #25
                      While you would not recommend joining iron straight to copper, with admittedly some good reason, I can't tell you how many dialectrics used in this fashion begin to rot as well. I've seen manifolds with dialectrics on both return AND supply completely corroded to the point of leaking, and they almost inevitably have to be cut out and the joints re-joined since they are SO corroded they won't budge even with a 36" pipe wrench. Worthless.

                      Most residential hydrtonic boilers simply don't have the flow rate or pressure to warrant the use of dialectrics and I view them on such systems, after actually seeing their life spans, as an unnecessary expense and one that actually does'nt do much to prevent the very thing it's supposed to stop from happening in the first place. I know you'll find this hard to believe, but I have seen joints mating iron and copper directly last LONGER than most dialectrics on such systems. And it's usually not real cheap for the average home-owner to call a plumber out to replace one after it goes bad, at least an hour service call if not sometimes much longer.

                      Water heaters have a much higher flow and pressure therefor a dialectric of some form is required, but on boilers, it's nonsense and code finally realized it.

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                      • #26
                        Any one who installes a water heater, knows that you don't run copper pipe dirrect. with out eather dielectrics, brass nipples, or the factory supplied dielectric nipple. which is better than nothing. for any one that removes those nipples and pipes there copper dirrect. please go back to plumbing 101. because i don't want you working in my homes. And one more thing, many guys if they new how to install a dielectric union. they do work very well. I have went back to jobs 15 years later with no problem with the union. when i changed the heater i simply replaced my washer. Most solder with unions in tact, and you can not do that.
                        1Drainmaster

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