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  • #16
    Originally posted by johnnytugs1
    plummer rick when u say put the system on a test what does that mean? and ummm weenie?
    john
    looked at your photo. it doesn't look like that far of a run. we as plumbing contractors, can't get into the sidewalk or beyond. it takes a sewer contractor out here to do that.

    as far as a test goes, mark answered it. but usually outside piping doesn't need the 10' head. typically just fill it up to the top of the c/o is ok.
    a weenie is an inflatable plug that goes into the top of the tee or wye and you push it into the main and inflate to block off the water from going into the piping downstream or out the c/o tee. it has a chain and ring on it so when you let the air out, you don't lose your weenie


    rick.

    mark, your now on the fence with the camera. i knew you would come around 1 day
    phoebe it is

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    • #17
      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK
      mark, your now on the fence with the camera. i knew you would come around 1 day
      Yeah at 14 feet I think "Sports Digging" is a little much.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK
        you need to put the system on a test anyways and the c/o without a riser is a good spot to put in a test plug or weenie
        When I was an apprentice my journeyman taught that the term was baloney for the test plug that we inserted into the waste line to block it for the hydro test.

        baloney, weenie, test plug sausage, it's interesting how different terms have developed for the same object...

        Comment


        • #19
          800 dig is going to call the sewer dept.and have them mark out where the sewer is. i'm gonna call the plumbing inspector again to firm up the depth of this beast. worst case scenerio if i find the cleanouts i can run a tape or measure a snake to the bottom, no? this should tell me how deep it is? if i can find both cleanouts i should be set then right? ok so now what are these 10' & 6' head and where do i find a weenie? thanks for your patience.
          john
          Last edited by johnnytugs1; 03-13-2006, 02:03 AM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Head is just the weight of the water above your sewer line. You will probably just need to add some wyes to insert the test plugs and then fill the cleanout riser at the street. If you check with the building department they may not even require a test on 40' of pipe.

            The test plugs are available as inflatable (weenie) or mechanical. Often rental yards have them available for rent. Here are some links:

            http://pipeplug.com/longplugs.htm

            http://pipeplug.com/1b.htm

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #21
              By the way if you inflate a inflatable 4" double test plug outside of the pipe it will get about 20" round and 3' long. If you stick with it long enough by driving over it with a 1-ton Rough-in truck it will eventually explode. But that was 25-years ago and another story.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #22
                Great advice, for sure...

                My municipality (Birmingham, AL) requires min. 4" ductile iron for residential sewer repairs (test tees, 8ths, 16ths, etc. get expensive) with mechanical joints, with a 10 foot head test regardless of lentgh of replacement. I'm only mentioning this because there are EXTREME differences in code requirements as you travel accross the country. While your practical advise in areas such as cameras, cleanouts and pipe types are right on the money, statements such as " you shouldn't need 10" head test for outside pipe (sic.)" from LA plumber probably won't help NY sewer guy. The practical reality is that he's looking at a job that is too much for even a hard-nosed weekend warrior. According to OSHA, trench shoring is mandatory when digging over 4 feet.(unless sloped, or type A - stable soil) To gloss over the need for shoring for a trench of potentially 14 feet with barely a mention is reckless. We've all read or felt personally the newspaper stories that careless disregard for trench shoring will result in. This man needs advise on how to proceed. For his sake, the only advise that I feel comfortable offering is to get 3-5 qualified estimates and have the job professionally done. I'm surprised that two respected and knowledgeable plumbers such as yourselves haven't grabbed this guy by the shoulders, looked him square in the eye, and asked him if he's seriously considering digging, entering and working in a potentially 14 foot deep trench! I've worked in deeper trenches than that with all appropriate safety equipment and training, and I still would rather have oral surgery. Even with ventilation equipment, shoring, ladders and lanyard/harness, it feels like I'm on the moon. Please, please guys I say this with all respect....give 'em what they need, not what they want. HIRE A PROFESSIONAL!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by HelenaPlumber
                  My municipality (Birmingham, AL) requires min. 4" ductile iron for residential sewer repairs (test tees, 8ths, 16ths, etc. get expensive) with mechanical joints, with a 10 foot head test regardless of lentgh of replacement. I'm only mentioning this because there are EXTREME differences in code requirements as you travel accross the country. While your practical advise in areas such as cameras, cleanouts and pipe types are right on the money, statements such as " you shouldn't need 10" head test for outside pipe (sic.)" from LA plumber probably won't help NY sewer guy. The practical reality is that he's looking at a job that is too much for even a hard-nosed weekend warrior. According to OSHA, trench shoring is mandatory when digging over 4 feet.(unless sloped, or type A - stable soil) To gloss over the need for shoring for a trench of potentially 14 feet with barely a mention is reckless. We've all read or felt personally the newspaper stories that careless disregard for trench shoring will result in. This man needs advise on how to proceed. For his sake, the only advise that I feel comfortable offering is to get 3-5 qualified estimates and have the job professionally done. I'm surprised that two respected and knowledgeable plumbers such as yourselves haven't grabbed this guy by the shoulders, looked him square in the eye, and asked him if he's seriously considering digging, entering and working in a potentially 14 foot deep trench! I've worked in deeper trenches than that with all appropriate safety equipment and training, and I still would rather have oral surgery. Even with ventilation equipment, shoring, ladders and lanyard/harness, it feels like I'm on the moon. Please, please guys I say this with all respect....give 'em what they need, not what they want. HIRE A PROFESSIONAL!
                  Perhaps you missed my post where I told him if it was deeper than 5' he needed to hire a professional.
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Sure, I saw it...

                    AZ-
                    You mentioned it once, in your 4th post of 9 in this thread. Considering the gravity (or is it must my percieved gravity?), it is my belief that your and PlumberRick's comments should have certainly pointed NY's thoughts toward professional help. I'd rather err on the side of caution, maybe it's just me.
                    John

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by HelenaPlumber
                      AZ-
                      You mentioned it once, in your 4th post of 9 in this thread. Considering the gravity (or is it must my percieved gravity?), it is my belief that your and PlumberRick's comments should have certainly pointed NY's thoughts toward professional help. I'd rather err on the side of caution, maybe it's just me.
                      John

                      I believe you are posting to me and not AZ. You might notice my first post recommends he find out from the City how deep his sewer is. My second post to him I recommend he find out from the City how deep it is so we could better advise him. In that same post I recommend he use a professional if the sewer is deeper than five foot deep. In my third post to him I told him he would need to use shoring or trench at a 45. In my forth post to him I told him to leave it to a sewer contractor (not a plumber) but you're right in my fifth post to him I did not warn him.

                      Mark
                      Last edited by ToUtahNow; 03-15-2006, 12:22 AM.
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        helenaplumber, it's very simple to sit back and critique any post. you're more than welcome to share your own personnal experiances with all. the difference is that both mark and i answered his questions that he posted. both of us were not too keen on him doing the job in the fisrt place. infact i stated on many occasions to use a camera to locate the problem and get a depth before digging up the whole system.
                        after a few more post he stated that his brother in law owns a backhoe. chances are his brother in law has more hands on digging knowledge than us. he only does that for a living. unless he doesn't care for his own family member, i would think that he will protect his brother in law along with his own butt.

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          ok

                          Okay, I submit. You guys are right. I'm wrong.

                          I guess I just read this thread all at once, and wasn't in the right context. I don't sit back and pick on folks just because I can. Rather than be defensive when receiving negative feedback, I'm going to try to be open minded and perhapse try to see anothers' point of view. It is my hope that others do the same.

                          Thanks.

                          John

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            ok

                            Okay, I submit. You guys are right. I'm wrong.

                            I guess I just read this thread all at once, and wasn't in the right context. I don't sit back and pick on folks just because I can. Rather than be defensive when receiving negative feedback, I'm going to try to be open minded and perhapse try to see anothers' point of view. It is my hope that others do the same.

                            Thanks.

                            John

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Thanks and you are right, we do need to remember to do a better job at warning DIYers about the dangers which comes along with some repairs.

                              Mark
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                8 ft deep!?!? Man, i'm glad I live in Fl. where a deep sewer is only 4 ft.

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