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Flat Rate vs Whatever

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  • #61
    Re: Flat Rate vs Whatever

    Call me gullible, cynical, or whatever....

    but I do not feel you would post here or on any other plumbing website without a conscience or even sub-conscience desire to sell your current seminars and/or books to plumbing companies.

    J.C.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Flat Rate vs Whatever

      Rich,

      My point was by providing a link to a web site which says you will soon have a book for sale, it gives the appearance you have a vested interest in your opinion.

      With the information you have provided (and a little Google here and there) it appears you had a plumbing business for 15-years and now for the last 16-years you have worked for someone else as a "Sales Manager". I often wonder when I see people who are selling their sales skills or techniques in a book or program yet have giving up or lost their own business. It seems the real money in successful sales skills or techniques would be to use them yourself. That is of course unless those skills and techniques do not work for you.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Flat Rate vs Whatever

        To Utah I am amazed at your arguments. You judge whether or not I sold or lost my business yet you sold your business to your employees? Was there no outside interest? See how your logic is a failed thought process. What and where is the difference with selling a business? Are your reasons more valid than mine for selling a business? And how is this relevant to anything? Other than I was much younger than you when I had my business and did not want to invest that much time as I became older?
        Who does not have a vested interest in their valued opinion? Does it make mine any less than yours? You can stop wondering I do use my professional skills on a daily basis. I help others become better at what they do. By the way I am still in the plumbing profession running service calls and taking care of the manager’s for the company and owner. I would suggest that you take the time to read the articles and website. With you having been in the service industry I am sure you would find a lot of common ground with our beliefs.

        I must take a step back and wonder if you ever had anyone make a commitment to you and help your business? I happen to respect and like the owner of the company I am with and have made a commitment to him and the company. Together we have been through a lot of difficult times both professionally and personally. Each of us pulling for one another and it is more than a business relationship it is personal. Please do not think you can attack me ethically or my honesty and integrity. I have not attacked anyone’s ethics, honesty, and integrity only methods of critiques.

        I take it the accepted practice is to stay at one station in one’s life without improvement? I have taken the time to improve my ability and treatment of my clients and learned to give them the best possible choices in order for them to make the best decision. However with the logic that was used in trying to diagnose why I sold my business I should not want to help others achieve the success in a faster time period than I did? I now understand where you are coming from.

        I have had two people here inform me that I am bashing and what I see is a negative response pattern by those who think there should never be opposing views. I used examples to back up my views. Attack what is said and refute statements however it has been chosen to attack the person personally. I understand more and more with additional conversation.

        Your point with a link to a website has no validity every website has a link to their professional website and they are selling their service and product. Companies do not have products and services to sell?

        One question did you advertise, in the phone book? Then your tag line is not representing the truth.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Flat Rate vs Whatever

          Rich,

          You seem to be confusing a civil exchange of ideas with an argument. The difference between anyone else's vested interest in an opinion and yours is you are trying to profit by selling your opinions to others.

          I don't know how old you were when you started your plumbing business but I was 28 when I started mine. Prior to that I was the foreman of the Plumbing HVAC division of a large construction company. I have owned and operated many business over the years but have been self employed for the majority of my life. When I was 36-years old, concurrent with my plumbing business, I started working as an Expert Witness in Construction Litigation. After 11-years, I sold my plumbing business to an employee who had worked with me for 25-years so that I could devote 100% of my time to my consulting firm.

          I did not sell my plumbing business so that I could sell books and seminars to others on how to run a successful plumbing business. I sold my plumbing business because as an Expert Witness I am able to still work in the Plumbing Industry but I am expose to much more and find it more challenging. My statement regarding giving up a business was not limited to you but to all of the people I have seen over the years who sell how to be successful at something but no longer work at that something. I'm not saying you are wrong, as that is your choice. However, logic would dictate those who do such are making more money teaching than doing.

          As for advertising in the phonebook, we had a phone listing just large enough to let people know we were in business. I always felt the return from phonebook advertising was overrated.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Flat Rate vs Whatever

            Originally posted by rich34232 View Post
            To Utah I am amazed at your arguments. You judge whether or not I sold or lost my business yet you sold your business to your employees? Was there no outside interest? See how your logic is a failed thought process. What and where is the difference with selling a business? Are your reasons more valid than mine for selling a business? And how is this relevant to anything? Other than I was much younger than you when I had my business and did not want to invest that much time as I became older?
            Who does not have a vested interest in their valued opinion? Does it make mine any less than yours? You can stop wondering I do use my professional skills on a daily basis. I help others become better at what they do. By the way I am still in the plumbing profession running service calls and taking care of the manager’s for the company and owner. I would suggest that you take the time to read the articles and website. With you having been in the service industry I am sure you would find a lot of common ground with our beliefs.

            I must take a step back and wonder if you ever had anyone make a commitment to you and help your business? I happen to respect and like the owner of the company I am with and have made a commitment to him and the company. Together we have been through a lot of difficult times both professionally and personally. Each of us pulling for one another and it is more than a business relationship it is personal. Please do not think you can attack me ethically or my honesty and integrity. I have not attacked anyone’s ethics, honesty, and integrity only methods of critiques.

            I take it the accepted practice is to stay at one station in one’s life without improvement? I have taken the time to improve my ability and treatment of my clients and learned to give them the best possible choices in order for them to make the best decision. However with the logic that was used in trying to diagnose why I sold my business I should not want to help others achieve the success in a faster time period than I did? I now understand where you are coming from.

            I have had two people here inform me that I am bashing and what I see is a negative response pattern by those who think there should never be opposing views. I used examples to back up my views. Attack what is said and refute statements however it has been chosen to attack the person personally. I understand more and more with additional conversation.

            Your point with a link to a website has no validity every website has a link to their professional website and they are selling their service and product. Companies do not have products and services to sell?

            One question did you advertise, in the phone book? Then your tag line is not representing the truth.
            Damn, boy, you talk too damn much.

            Utah, the yellow pages aren't overrated, but rather overpriced. This current year I got a 1-1/2 pages for 450.00/month in the #2 book. The #1 book is still too high priced, so I have a big in-column ad.

            That there Google thang is getting to be reliable---watch it push the yellow pages' prices way down.
            (The Low Spark of Steel-Toed Boys)

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Flat Rate vs Whatever

              Rich starts up a 3 year old thread Gimmie a break lol
              Seattle Drain Service

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Flat Rate vs Whatever



                Consulting firm? Go figure. Believe what you want to believe and say what you want. You will spin your ideas without understanding or knowing if they are wrong or right. Mostly wrong in this case. You must be right concerning all things; you are an expert witness after all and never have been wrong.

                You win; I sold my business in 1993 knowing I would write a book in 2009, have a website, and start seminars later in life. That the profession I am interested in could never be important or the right way to go and you being an expert witness and all how could I have ever thought any other way. I now see the error in my ways and will accept what you say as the golden rule and never question the authority that the internet has given.

                I opened this page and this was the number one thread listing on the top of the page. That is why I commented on it.


                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Flat Rate vs Whatever

                  Originally posted by rich34232 View Post

                  Consulting firm? Go figure. Believe what you want to believe and say what you want. You will spin your ideas without understanding or knowing if they are wrong or right. Mostly wrong in this case. You must be right concerning all things; you are an expert witness after all and never have been wrong.

                  You win; I sold my business in 1993 knowing I would write a book in 2009, have a website, and start seminars later in life. That the profession I am interested in could never be important or the right way to go and you being an expert witness and all how could I have ever thought any other way. I now see the error in my ways and will accept what you say as the golden rule and never question the authority that the internet has given.

                  I opened this page and this was the number one thread listing on the top of the page. That is why I commented on it.

                  Don't know how this can be. You opened "Ask the Plumbing Experts" and the the first thread at the top of the page was one many years old.

                  I've never had that happen whether I'm logged in or not.

                  What most take some offense too is the appearance of a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing if it's true or not.

                  You are a retired plumbing business owner that's looking to sell books and seminars to other plumbers or business'.

                  That does not necessarily mean that you don't have a good book or seminar, but that is what you want to promote and should just lay it all out there.

                  People would be much more accepting in my opinion.

                  J.C.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Flat Rate vs Whatever

                    Originally posted by rich34232 View Post

                    Consulting firm? Go figure. Believe what you want to believe and say what you want. You will spin your ideas without understanding or knowing if they are wrong or right. Mostly wrong in this case. You must be right concerning all things; you are an expert witness after all and never have been wrong.

                    You win; I sold my business in 1993 knowing I would write a book in 2009, have a website, and start seminars later in life. That the profession I am interested in could never be important or the right way to go and you being an expert witness and all how could I have ever thought any other way. I now see the error in my ways and will accept what you say as the golden rule and never question the authority that the internet has given.

                    I opened this page and this was the number one thread listing on the top of the page. That is why I commented on it.

                    Wow for a guy who takes creative writing classes and hopes to be published I am having a hard time following your logic or direction. I'm not looking for a pissing match only trying to understand your motives. I am asking you questions and you come back with attacks.

                    I really would like to know if you or any of the others truly believe in what they publish or teach, why they are not using those skills for their own betterment? I see it all of the time and it is not limited to the plumbing industry. How many times have any of us seen authors or seminar host talking about buying real estate yet they aren't?

                    Others have already pointed out you brought up a thread which has been inactive for 1253-days without a post. If I was as cynical as JC I would almost think you had to search to find this thread. Either way you are welcome to stay here and share your knowledge but don't expect an entrance like you made will not raise suspicions with some.

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Flat Rate vs Whatever

                      Originally posted by rich34232 View Post

                      Consulting firm? Go figure. Believe what you want to believe and say what you want. You will spin your ideas without understanding or knowing if they are wrong or right. Mostly wrong in this case. You must be right concerning all things; you are an expert witness after all and never have been wrong.

                      You win; I sold my business in 1993 knowing I would write a book in 2009, have a website, and start seminars later in life. That the profession I am interested in could never be important or the right way to go and you being an expert witness and all how could I have ever thought any other way. I now see the error in my ways and will accept what you say as the golden rule and never question the authority that the internet has given.

                      I opened this page and this was the number one thread listing on the top of the page. That is why I commented on it.


                      Rich, I have a lot of respect for the guys here and I am getting a little tired of the attacks. Your welcome here same as the rest of us but your not off to a good start. You might try and get to know some of the people here before you start attacking their ideas, comments or principals. Mark is one of the most respected members here and I for one look up to him. He is a man of character and has a lot of wisdom to share. I am not defending him he can do that himself but is this really necessary?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Flat Rate vs Whatever

                        A little history

                        I do appreciate this heading back to civil. I will answer any questions that are questions and will provide explanations. I did not start the attacks I stood up for flat rate, straight forward and up front pricing and I stood up for my credentials. I will answer any question asked of me personally and professionally. I am not a bad guy.

                        I do not and will from never twist what another states and I will say what I mean and mean what I say and that may be the cause of getting off on the wrong foot.
                        There are only a few things that set me off and one of them is to throw out examples without having the details involved. An example would be a price without the work scope. Another is a claim that another professional did not do everything they should have done (bashing them) without knowing the details. The details from a client are usually one sided and most likely hold 20-30% of what was said or completed. When I see this I will point out more details that were not followed with the description of the work scope given by the writer. My goal with every client to is exceed expectations and those expectations are my expectations as the client does not understand what they should expect other than to get rid of the problem. A get by fix in my estimation should only happen when the budget cannot be met for the permanent solution. It is up to me to discover where we can fit it in the budget. It is always the client’s decision concerning what to spend and I must give them all information whether I think they can afford or cannot afford. They must have all the information to make an educated decision that is best for them.
                        I am not a fan of quotes that are misrepresented and taken out of context on purpose to try and discredit individuals. This sets me off.

                        For the record I am not a fan of franchises, chains that are not locally owned and do not give the local company the power to make decisions in the best interest of the client and employees of that company.

                        I work for and with an owner that has been in the plumbing business for over 50 years. He is innovative and proactive and we both educate plumbers in our area to not only become better professional plumbers but better people. We are very strict with workmanship, ethics and integrity and have a commitment to our profession. We strive to make this a profession that has pride in the aspect that we are not just plumbers. A better you professionally and personally.

                        We have a close community. When we run into a shoddy job by a plumbing company I can guarantee that the owner of that company did not know that their technician left a client in a bad situation. They appreciate a phone call from us informing them of the condition. Multiple issues and they come in front of the local PHCC to resolve the shoddy workmanship. Our industry needs to work like this in order to gain the respect and reputation that it originally held.

                        Comment

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