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  • garager [ help ]

    ok my sister has a house in upstate NY the house has a crawl space with a dirt floor .
    it needs a vapor barrier would you put it on the floor joist or on the dirt and seal it up a long the block foundation wall ?

    thanks floor your help charlie
    Charlie

    My seek the peek fundraiser page
    http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


    http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

    new work pictures 12/09
    http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

  • #2
    Re: garager [ help ]

    Put it on the ground, thicker the mil (minimum 6 mils) the better it is. If you put it on the bottom of your joist, and you have a water leak, now you'll have a water balloon, sort of speak. Then it'll crash down and ruin your work. Also, it'll be in the way of plumbing and electrical possibly.

    Here I always place it on the ground and insulated the flooring w/paperback insulation. With the pink facing the heat and add lath to hold up. Paper back is also a moisture barrier. If crawl space is heated, then just insulate skirting.

    Clean up the ground before you place it down, and any over lap, minimum 2' and tape the seams. Boards or decent size rocks around the parimeter to hold it in place.

    This is a job I don't like to do, so have fun with this one, I sure hope there is to many obstacles in your way. Also a second person is more then welcome when doing this, so find someone...

    Oh, at the entrance area underneath, place down any type of plywood/wide boards and as big as you can. This is the area that gets to be torn up.
    Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

    http://www.contractorspub.com

    A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: garager [ help ]

      Garager, it may be redundant (especially underneath) but I thought the paper on insulation faced the living space.

      J.C.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: garager [ help ]

        Huge debate all of the time, most classes that I take, says pink towards heat. Later on they will change their decision again. I'm not even sure if there is an actual correct way, I think it comes down to preference.

        The way I see it and the way I do it, because its the easiest for me. Paper at the bottom in a crawlspace, moisture from the ground is being blocked as to not get after the joists and flooring. Once again, if water leaks get at this, the insulation will come crashing down, its inevitable.

        Rarely do I ever use paperback insulation inside a home, I will use 6 mil plastic instead. So that issue is solved.

        Attic is the same as inside a home, no paper back.

        I would like to hear some feed backs from the other Contractors.
        Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

        http://www.contractorspub.com

        A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: garager [ help ]

          wall insulation has always been paper towards the warm/ living space side.

          don't make me rip out my double layer of exterior facing drywall.

          even the paper backing on the insulation states this. at least last time i checked

          rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: garager [ help ]

            Here it is always paper to the inside. Ceiling is paper to inside so as to keep heat in and the heat from attic out. It used to be no paper for floor but it could have changed as I haven't done that type of work for awhile. They used to put plastic over it too so moisture from under house wouldn't get it wet.

            However I do like the ideal to have the paper under house with maybe plastic over it. Just don't know how it would hold up in wet area's. Here we have a lot of trouble with mice and rats getting into the insulation and nesting. Not that the plastic will help if they want to get warm.

            shup

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: garager [ help ]

              They have tabs on the paper for stapling, so ya inside of the house paper towards you (walls) because this makes sense. But if your framing is accurate you don't need paper as long as you still use plastic. No plastic, you better use paperback.

              Up here for ceilings, when the ceiling is done most homes are now blown in insulation, its cheaper and you can get into the R40 range w/no problem. Yes I put up plastic before drywall.

              Like I said, this is a debatable area. But then if the manufacturer says to do it this way or that, you must follow what they say. I'm just saying, I have had instructors tell me one thing then another.

              Technically when Hawk goes to do a vapor barrier, this should be above the insulation. meaning plastic on top of the floor joist or tar paper sandwich between 2 layers of sub flooring. But this will be impossible to do, so he should place the plastic on the ground and treat it as a non vented crawlspace. In Alaska, you can not buy a home until this has been done or replace the damage vapor barrier. In MN, its just common sense to lay down plastic and it needs to be done right, sealed well....
              Last edited by garager; 07-10-2008, 10:37 AM. Reason: Added more
              Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

              http://www.contractorspub.com

              A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: garager [ help ]

                garager said:

                In Alaska, you can not buy a home until this has been done or replace the damage vapor barrier. In MN, its just common sense to lay down plastic and it needs to be done right, sealed well....

                It is also the same here.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: garager [ help ]


                  Paper on warm side, held up w/ steel insulation supports.

                  I hold the sheeting down w/ sand to avoid holes, and keep it from wrinkling.

                  & use automatic crawlspace vents.
                  http://www.refined-home.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: garager [ help ]

                    ok there is vents under the house and she said there is a little heat down there because the well pump tank is under there .
                    the contractor said either way would be ok but i do like it on the ground to keep the moisture out of the crawl space and if there is a leak all the insulation wont get wet .

                    now in my crawl space and it was done before i moved here they have paper up and they put roofers tar paper under the floor joist and we never had a moisture problem at all [ this is just under the extinction ]

                    now the rest of the house is on a slab and i dont think they put plastic under the slab because the AC can not pull the moisture out of the house that well

                    now Holmes on Homes puts the pink to the heat and puts up plastic
                    Charlie

                    My seek the peek fundraiser page
                    http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                    http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                    new work pictures 12/09
                    http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: garager [ help ]

                      Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
                      ok there is vents under the house and she said there is a little heat down there because the well pump tank is under there .
                      the contractor said either way would be ok but i do like it on the ground to keep the moisture out of the crawl space and if there is a leak all the insulation wont get wet . Sounds like she is in good hands...

                      now in my crawl space and it was done before i moved here they have paper up and they put roofers tar paper under the floor joist and we never had a moisture problem at all [ this is just under the extinction ] I too, have seen it done this way many times. If it works it works...

                      now the rest of the house is on a slab and i dont think they put plastic under the slab because the AC can not pull the moisture out of the house that well. I sure hope they did something there, a strong density rigid insulation will also keep out moisture to a good extent, but if it cracks, and no plastic, moisture can come up but not a lot...
                      now Holmes on Homes puts the pink to the heat and puts up plastic

                      See, others will do this also. I really don't think theres a wrong way to this. Until I am told by the inspectors to stop, I will do it with pink towards heat and plastic.
                      Holler if you have questions, Hawk...
                      Last edited by garager; 07-10-2008, 07:13 PM.
                      Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

                      http://www.contractorspub.com

                      A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: garager [ help ]

                        my house is about 65yrs old so who knows what they did

                        most of the floors are hard wood floor and the rest are all up to the same level .they put 3/4 strips down and then the hard wood floor ,i dont think they put a vapor layer down on the slab

                        i have to have a dehumidifier on the same time as the AC
                        we have some places we do work at that have the same problem so i know it happens
                        Charlie

                        My seek the peek fundraiser page
                        http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                        http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                        new work pictures 12/09
                        http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: garager [ help ]

                          now as far as the plastic on the dirt is there a different type to use and how about using caulk to put on the block then some wood strips is this over kill

                          and what type of tape for the joints
                          Charlie

                          My seek the peek fundraiser page
                          http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                          http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                          new work pictures 12/09
                          http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: garager [ help ]

                            A whole thread for just you and Garager? Kinda seems like you are two-timing my hubby
                            I love my plumber

                            "My Hero"

                            Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: garager [ help ]

                              Originally posted by MrsSeatDown View Post
                              A whole thread for just you and Garager? Kinda seems like you are two-timing my hubby
                              its not what you think
                              Charlie

                              My seek the peek fundraiser page
                              http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                              http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                              new work pictures 12/09
                              http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                              Comment

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