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  • Retrofit Window

    Hi,

    I've just installed a block-frame aluminum retrofit single-hung window. I filled the old frame channels with wood strips and the fit is nice. I have a 1/6" gap at the top and the exterior sill needs filling.

    My question is this: There's not much room at all to secure the new window with screws - not even flat heads. They'd bind on the sliding window. So, I was thinking about just using the silicone adhesive all around and fill in the exterior with stucco.

    Any better suggestions?

    Thanks,

    Pat
    If it ain't broke, I haven't seen it.

  • #2
    Re: Retrofit Window

    I'm confused...don't windows have a nailing flange around the outside? I've always used that to secure the window to the structure. I know in the old days they weren't made that way and you screwed through the window frame into structure, but every window I've seen in the past 10 years or so has had a nailing flange.
    I put it all back together better than before. There\'s lots of leftover parts.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Retrofit Window

      Correct me if I'm wrong but your using replacement/retrofit window.

      I know a contractor who does this, he installs them with 100% silicone. I won't do that myself, eventual caulking fails when your using it around wood.

      As for the screws binding with the window operation, this doesn't sound right. To me this sounds like your window went into the opening to tight and it isn't plumbed and leveled, the opening that is. Which then your window won't fit properly and can cause operation to be inadequate.
      Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

      http://www.contractorspub.com

      A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Retrofit Window

        If this is a replacement window there should be at least four holes two on either side for you to screw through the sides to secure it.

        Sandy the windows you are thinking of are new construction windows these windows are nail through the flanges into the sheeting with roofing nails before the siding is put up. Than when you put your siding up you cover the flanges.

        Jim
        http://www.jcremodeling.net/

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Retrofit Window

          Originally posted by jtravnick View Post
          If this is a replacement window there should be at least four holes two on either side for you to screw through the sides to secure it.

          Sandy the windows you are thinking of are new construction windows these windows are nail through the flanges into the sheeting with roofing nails before the siding is put up. Than when you put your siding up you cover the flanges.

          Jim
          Ah, thanks, Jim! I knew I must've been thinking of the wrong thing there. I'd bet money Garager's got the right answer for this. He usually does.
          I put it all back together better than before. There\'s lots of leftover parts.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Retrofit Window

            Originally posted by garager View Post
            Correct me if I'm wrong but your using replacement/retrofit window.

            I know a contractor who does this, he installs them with 100% silicone. I won't do that myself, eventual caulking fails when your using it around wood.

            As for the screws binding with the window operation, this doesn't sound right. To me this sounds like your window went into the opening to tight and it isn't plumbed and leveled, the opening that is. Which then your window won't fit properly and can cause operation to be inadequate.
            I agree. If it is a retro fit window though, I am not quite understanding why you would need to stucco it. Retro windows are made to fit inside the exiting window and not mess with the existing water barrier. If you have cut out the previous window you are now doing a replacement instead of a retrofit. If that is the case there should be a flange of some sort like Sandy was talking about or you can make one to tie into the existing waterproofing (the "tar paper"). Try some sort of bituthane tape like jiffy-seal. It will make your window as water tight as a submarine.

            Got any pictures? The main issue here is you want to make sure that the window is waterproof. You would be shocked at the kind of issues that can happen in a house from a leaky window that are incredibly hard to follow back to their source. You can get dripping or rotting on the opposite side of the house from a one or two inch gap in caulking.


            But back to what Garager said, it seems something is wrong if the holes for fastening the frame are not allowing the screws to sit flat enough for operation.


            Eli
            A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Retrofit Window

              Hmmm...I just re-read the original post and I think I may have a clue. You should NEVER screw through the bottom of a window--it will leak guaranteed. So if your sliding vent is catching on screws on the bottom edge, that is a problem for sure. If it is catching on the top we are back to what garager said again--the opening is blocked in too tight and needs some space. Take out one or more of the strips you used to fir it in and if you need to fill the gap for isulative purposes use a low expanding foam. Make sure you have the frame screwed in securely before applying foam to the gap because the expansion can cause the same issue with the frame ending up too tight. This foam will actually help hold the window in place very securely too after it sets. Just do not over apply it, even the low expanding stuff can push you out of alignment.

              I am still concerned with your waterproofing on the exterior. The best advice for making sure you are following proper water proofing techniques comes from Bruce Lee--"be like wata"--or at least think like water. Imagine you are a drip traveling down the side of your house and see if there is anywhere you would pool or enter the fenestration. Leave the bottoms of all membranes open if possible to allow water to leak out and not pool and shingle every layer so it will flow down without penetrating.

              Especially if you have stucco this is important. Your only waterproofing on a stucco exterior is the thin layer of paint and the tar paper. If water gets in there it can cause dry rot that you may not even know about until it is the stucco itself that is holding up your roof. Be careful!

              Eli
              Last edited by woodenstickers; 09-17-2008, 01:01 PM.
              A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Retrofit Window

                Thanks guys.

                Here's some clarifications:

                The existing frame is still there. I purchased a block-frame replacement window: ie: no nail flange.

                The exterior sill is deeply recessed - Southwestern style building.
                The interior sill is also deeply recessed by 4 inches.
                So, I chose the block frame retro window.

                I filled the old frame's front window channel with wood strips.
                The new window fits nice and snug with about a 1/16" gap all around. And, I made sure it was squared. Sliding window moves real nice.

                On the top sides of the retro frame, there were screw tips extending past the frame. The screws were holding the pulley mechanism. So, I solved that problem by notching the wood I put in the old frame's channels.

                There are no pre-punched nail holes anywhere on the retro window frame, and there's no leeway between channel and window to even put a nail through.

                So, I'm caulking all around inside and out.I have a 1" gap at the bottom sill on the exterior because the window recess is sloped at the bottom. I'm thinking of filling it with a strip of wood caulked into place, then putting window trim around the whole window outside.
                If it ain't broke, I haven't seen it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Retrofit Window

                  I got ya I think. So it was a double or single hung window with the sashes stopped in. Correct?

                  I think you are on the right track. Whenever I did these windows, and there are a lot of wooden double hungs in the bay area, I would leave the exterior stop in place and just pull the sashes and the bead in between the sashes. We did screw through the frames on the side only, use self tapping screws if there are no holes drilled. I would usually push the new window against the exterior stops from the insdie, they were measured to fit just within and used the same stops, then re-apply stops on the inside. a couple of screws and expanding foam combined with the stops is more than enough to keep the window secure.

                  As for filling in the gap at the sloped sill--be careful there too. I would suggest leaving at least one or two small gaps for water to weep out making sure that no water will get trapped behind the filler and caulking if it does find it's way back there.

                  If you want to trim out the exterior of the window make a nice thick bead of caulk on the top and side pieces, but again leave the bottom uncaulked for water to escape and weep out.

                  I'm sure my way is not the only way, so if any advice I give steps over into the realm of more than you wanted or needed, no offense. I did window replacement for Renewal by Andersen for a number of years so it is one of the few subjects I actually know as much about as I think I do.




                  Eli
                  Last edited by woodenstickers; 09-17-2008, 06:34 PM.
                  A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Retrofit Window

                    Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                    I got ya I think. So it was a double or single hung window with the sashes stopped in. Correct?

                    I think you are on the right track. Whenever I did these windows, and there are a lot of wooden double hungs in the bay area, I would leave the exterior stop in place and just pull the sashes and the bead in between the sashes. We did screw through the frames on the side only, use self tapping screws if there are no holes drilled. I would usually push the new window against the exterior stops from the insdie, they were measured to fit just within and used the same stops, then re-apply stops on the inside. a couple of screws and expanding foam combined with the stops is more than enough to keep the window secure.

                    As for filling in the gap at the sloped sill--be careful there too. I would suggest leaving at least one or two small gaps for water to weep out making sure that no water will get trapped behind the filler and caulking if it does find it's way back there.

                    If you want to trim out the exterior of the window make a nice thick bead of caulk on the top and side pieces, but again leave the bottom uncaulked for water to escape and weep out.

                    I'm sure my way is not the only way, so if any advice I give steps over into the realm of more than you wanted or needed, no offense. I did window replacement for Renewal by Andersen for a number of years so it is one of the few subjects I actually know as much about as I think I do.




                    Eli
                    Agree....

                    OnTheJob ,sometimes manufacturers can miss a step or two when making their product, if you need holes to secure more properly, do so. Drill your own holes, will it void the warranty, probably. But if the job is done right, you should have nothing to worry about.

                    I have taken out windows and doors in the past, and the only thing that secured them into place was the trim. Many, many times I have seen this. But caulking will fail after a period of time, keep that in mind.
                    Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

                    http://www.contractorspub.com

                    A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Retrofit Window

                      Thanks for all the advice.

                      I finally got the window in. I went with siliconing inside and outside, then putting a trim on the outside.

                      I made a mess with the darn window sealant. Geez. Can't paint over it - paint just beads. And it won't come off easily. So, I took some automobile primer, sprayed it and, voila!! That sealant painted up real nicely.
                      If it ain't broke, I haven't seen it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Retrofit Window

                        Originally posted by OnTheJob View Post
                        Thanks for all the advice.

                        I finally got the window in. I went with siliconing inside and outside, then putting a trim on the outside.

                        I made a mess with the darn window sealant. Geez. Can't paint over it - paint just beads. And it won't come off easily. So, I took some automobile primer, sprayed it and, voila!! That sealant painted up real nicely.

                        Next time, use Lexel caulk - you can paint over it so well you won't even know it's there. Although you have to wait(after application) 48 hours for water-based paint and 30 days for oil-based.
                        I'm on "The List" and I love it!!

                        Comment

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