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What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

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  • Josh
    started a topic What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    Well I decided to dig a bit deeper. It first appeared that my bottom row of blocks was rotting just above the footer. Turns out that as I dug it out more there isnt really a footer. It appears that there are blocks angled at a 45 degree in and there was sand packed around them. Is this normal???



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  • Josh
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    The end of the story....

    http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...d.php?p=256338

    Leave a comment:


  • canucksartech
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    Here's some stuff that I found on the BlueSkin membrane:

    This is the sheet stuff (not the nice to apply spray-on stuff), but still the same general product:

    http://www.can-save.ca/Foundation/ba...rproofing.html

    And this is all the efficiency ratings, etc., for our building codes for the sheet stuff:

    www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/ccmc/registry/pdf/13297_e.pdf

    Here's the spray-on stuff, in grey:

    http://www.decoproducts.com/deco20wp.htm

    And then, after a bit more searching, is the actual stuff I've been talking about:

    www.bluesealwaterproofing.com/resources/pdf/ICFTechData.pdf


    So, it's called BlueSeal (BlueSkin, which in my experience, is the common term that everyone calls this stuff, but actually refers to the sheet version / another product / same idea, while BlueSeal is the spray on stuff). This stuff is the best IMO for your need. The biggest thing that I like is that it is rated for expansion, once dry, up to 340% - which means that even after you use hydraulic cement to patch up your cracks, if things still shift, this stuff retains it's integrity. It'll even bridge open cracks, and still retain it's seal, up to 1/16", which doesn't seem like much, but it's impressive. With this stuff applied after a powerwash and the application of hydraulic cement to patch up your cracks and openings, you'd be set.

    And here's their webpage:

    http://www.bluesealwaterproofing.com/

    All of this is our Canadian stuff. I'm not 100% sure what's available to you there in Ohio, but I'm sure if you get into contact with the company, they can guide you better for your needs on that side of the lake.
    Last edited by canucksartech; 09-23-2009, 10:59 AM.

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  • canucksartech
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    That's the stuff, Josh. I don't do it myself, nor does my boss. We get a company that specializes in it to come in and do it when needed on jobs. So I'm not sure if it's something that you can do yourself in your area - whether or not you can rent the sprayer, etc., or whether you have to have a licenced contractor/company come in and apply it for you. It's pricier than the tar, obviously, but it's worth it's weight in gold, especially in climates like ours when you have frost issues leading to ground heaving and movement, etc. Unlike the tar, this stuff is way more stretchy, if you want to call it that, and will move/adapt with some cracking/expansion.

    Also, unlike the tar, you could, if you wanted, just go with this stuff. Yes, the dimpled membrane is a nice added barrier, and makes it perfect. But its not as needed with the BlueSkin stuff, whereas with the tar, it's almost a must.

    So, the cost can even out either way.

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  • drtyhands
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    Originally posted by canucksartech View Post
    I can't remember if Henry is the company that makes it, but what you're showing there is window and door stuff. The BlueSkin that I'm talking about is a spray-on coating - it's a blue, polyurethane coating.
    This is the product I've seen as well.

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  • Josh
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    I'm lost on where I would find this stuff and who to have do it. What equipment I would need etc. May just go with the tar stuff. Gotta get this covered up but want to do it right so still open to the idea.

    Found this nice pic.

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  • canucksartech
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    Originally posted by Josh View Post
    My question is... how do you seal the gaps between the sheets of blue skin? We are talking about the stuff that Henry makes right? http://www.henry.com/blue_skin_henry/
    I can't remember if Henry is the company that makes it, but what you're showing there is window and door stuff. The BlueSkin that I'm talking about is a spray-on coating - it's a blue, polyurethane coating.

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  • Josh
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    My question is... how do you seal the gaps between the sheets of blue skin? We are talking about the stuff that Henry makes right? http://www.henry.com/blue_skin_henry/

    Leave a comment:


  • canucksartech
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    Originally posted by wbrooks View Post
    I like it, but I always use 3/4 clear and deer bones . We have a pit around here that should have closed many years ago, they have clay content in their A gravel. We eventually found this out from an old timer but saw it visually first hand in my own driveway. The first load came from a good pit and the second from the contaminated pit, when it rains hard half of my driveway puddles up.
    Yeah, I like to use 3/4" crushed instead of "A"-gravel (for those that don't know, 3/4" crushed is larger gravel "stones" if you will, with nearly no or less small particulate pieces compared to "A"-gravel). But, it's also about 1/4 to 1/3 more costly - some people don't like/want the added cost. I think it's better, especially in a situation like this, but either will do. I would definitely go with 3/4" crushed if the big-O pipe doesn't have the silt sleeve/cover to it (some places it may be hard to find that way). But as long as you have the silt sleeve, A-gravel would work too.

    I know what you're saying about crap "A"-gravel. I hate going to a place to pick up a load, and lo and behold, it looks like you're buying sand or powdered clay with a few lonely stones in it.
    Last edited by canucksartech; 09-22-2009, 07:38 AM.

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  • wbrooks
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    I like it, but I always use 3/4 clear and deer bones . We have a pit around here that should have closed many years ago, they have clay content in their A gravel. We eventually found this out from an old timer but saw it visually first hand in my own driveway. The first load came from a good pit and the second from the contaminated pit, when it rains hard half of my driveway puddles up.

    Leave a comment:


  • canucksartech
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    Me myself (I think I already stated some of this earlier in thread, but I'm confusing sometimes ):
    1. Hole already dug. Check.
    2. Make sure trench/hole is dug slightly below level of foundation/footer, by a few inches (4 to 6).
    3. Power wash cement of foundation.
    4. After foundation dry from washing, use hydraulic cement to patch up all visible cracks and damage. (Yes, if you have enough and wish to do so, you can use some of this to patch up and add onto the broken/missing/angled footer.
    5. Spray on BlueSkin membrane.
    6. Installed dimpled membrane (not really needed with BlueSkin, but a plus). If not using BlueSkin, and using a tar instead, then definitely use dimpled membrane in conjunction with tar.
    7. Put an inch or two of "A" gravel (or 3/4 crush, if you wish) in the bottom.
    8. Put in 4" or 6" big-O pipe (perforated drainage piping), with the white silt sleeving. As Josh and I talked about, empty into storm drain (if his house has one), or sump pump system to be installed, or into seepage of more big-O pipe out through his front yard as we had looked at while there, with lots more gravel/seepage.
    9. Big-O seepage piping should rest in gravel and the bottom of the piping should be just below grade level of foundation/footing, about 2 or 3 inches below.
    10. Cover with 1' to 3' of same "A"-gravel or 3/4" crushed stone.
    11. Top with dirt dug from hole. Tamp well, and ensure "slight" slopage away from house.
    12. Stand around and be proud.
    13. Show wife and family and friends.
    14. Request cold beer from wife, as congratulations for "job well done".
    15. Dump extra dirt in the lawn of a neighbour that you don't like. Put a little sign in it that says, "Here lays old Winston..." Add some chicken bones sticking out of it for posterity, if you wish.
    16. Post pictures on Ridgid Forum for all to see.
    Last edited by canucksartech; 09-21-2009, 09:55 PM.

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  • drtyhands
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    So what remedies do you guys like?

    Help me see what you like to see.

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  • canucksartech
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    Yeah, I'm not too overjoyed about the added cement idea. I think it's overkill, and like WBrooks said, if things are done wrong, you could end up separating the wall from the footer. IMO, adding that cement can just lead to multiple other areas to crack and pool water up against the blocks. Me personally, I would just scrap doing anything added with cement, aside from using hydraulic to shore up the cracks prior to spraying.

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  • wbrooks
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    I like the idea of pouring a new footer but I think you may want to consider doing this in sections. If the material is as loose as you describe there may be very little holding up the wall, if the footer collapses enough you could loose the wall especially with all the excavation (read disaster).
    If the first floor joists are supported by this wall I would consider building a 2X6 supporting wall in the basement to support the first floor in case the wall does give.
    Not sure about the mortar mix to create a slope. If the new footer is 2" or more from the wall it is very likely to crack. I would just slope the pour. If you are ordering small loads (1M or so) spec a 30 slump, I learned this the hard way. If the guy is running 9 M loads and then gets pulled from the job site to run your 1 M load he has likely washed out expecting a 9M load and you will end up with pea soup, had to send the load back. If you spec 30 you can always add water.
    I would pour the footer with a slope to shed water (no need for 45 degrees - 5 is lots) spray with Blueskin etc and then use the dimple membrane for overkill.

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  • Josh
    replied
    Re: What the Heck is this??? Weird foundation

    So here is the professional opinion from my the mason.

    1) Repour the footer along the whole length of the wall. If the old footer is crumbling take off what can be taken out by hand before pouring.

    2) Put in footer tile outside of footer and fill with gravel up to top of new footer.

    3) jet wash the wall completely clean (allowing water to drain out through footer tile)

    4) Mortar in a sweep to bridge from the wall over to the edge of the footer so all water drops into tile.

    5) Spread mortar over entire wall up to top

    6) Coat entire wall and sweep with tar.

    7) Back fill with stone up to top or near top.



    PS... I'll obviously remove the 2x12 ;-)
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