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  • no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

    We are thinking about extend the existing interior french drain to the entire basement. Last night I did a pioneer section. I found there is no concrete footing. photos are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bostonj...n/photostream/

    This house is a 1950 ranch house in MA Boston area, about 1400sqf, poured concrete. Is this possible or I didn't dig deep enough? There are no cracks on all these walls.

  • #2
    Re: no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

    It is entirely possible, not necessarily good, but possible. I have seen houses that had cement block laid on smooth clay.

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    • #3
      Re: no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

      on many slab type building, (not normally houses), they would just thicken the edge of the slab, called a monolithic pour,

      and yes it is possible, that it is with out a normal stem wall and footer,

      and it is possible that it may not even be a very good monolithic footer,

      the basic footer for a frame wall single story was in our area considered an 8" thick x 16" wide concrete footer, now if you set the wall on the footer, you may only have 8" of edge as the "floor" is not on top of the footer,

      this is normally only uses on unheated buildings as if you heat the building you may get more frost heaving as the edges freeze and the center stays unfrozen,

      yes it would be best if there was more depth of the footer, (normally it should go below frost line),

      picture from http://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/foundations.htm
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      Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
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      • #4
        Re: no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

        our basement is about 7' below the ground.

        does this mean it is NOT a good idea to put interior french drain around the perimeter?

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        • #5
          Re: no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

          I thought you were talking about a slab floor,

          apparently your saying there is no footer under the basement wall,

          not good but very possible,

          on the drain I don't think I would suggest to do it all the way to the bottom of the wall,
          but to remove any moisture before it gets that deep, but in our country we don't usually deal in any type of perimeter drains as most think you should get rain to need them, our rain fall is less than 12 inches a year, so most do not drain just grade it away from the foundations
          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
          attributed to Samuel Johnson
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

            We have done outside grading and french drain. The issue is during VERY heavy rain. The water table will be higher than usual. Then water will come out from the floor-wall joints and flood our basement. That is why we want to extend existing french drain.

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            • #7
              Re: no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

              Originally posted by thisnewowner View Post
              We have done outside grading and french drain. The issue is during VERY heavy rain. The water table will be higher than usual. Then water will come out from the floor-wall joints and flood our basement. That is why we want to extend existing french drain.
              yes if that is the situation then go for it,

              in our area the water table is only 280 feet deep so we do not have that type of problem,
              Last edited by BHD; 01-14-2011, 11:12 AM.
              Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
              attributed to Samuel Johnson
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

                Originally posted by BHD View Post
                in our area the water table is only 280 feet deep so we do not have that type of problem,
                you are luck.

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                • #9
                  Re: no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

                  Originally posted by BHD View Post
                  yes if that is the situation then go for it,
                  if they cut the concrete floor and dig a trench along the concrete walls for those 'pipes', it will weaken the foundation? no good?

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                  • #10
                    Re: no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

                    Judging by your picture, the soil looks like it has a fair amount of sand in clay. I would not recommend digging along the foundation in this instance. There is no way you could get the right compaction and you run the risk of the foundation settling.

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                    • #11
                      Re: no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

                      A perimeter outside drain (footing drain french drain) keeps the water from getting to your foundation, expansive soils like clay will rise and fall so it is best to keep the water away. Letting it get to the inside and be collected lets it in where we don't want it. That said many homes have cement improvements driveways,paths decks etc that would make an outside drain to costly to install and you are left to the inside drain system as a choice. Before I would put a drain inside I would exhaust all other actions to prevent the water from getting there, like downspout lines taken away from outer walls, all soils sloping away from house walls, a real poly spray treatment on inside walls to stop small amounts of water. I would camera inspect any line that could be letting water near the slab, ie floor drains etc. Oh yea I forgot lots and lots of houses have no footings. I see it half the time on old houses.
                      Last edited by Cuda; 01-15-2011, 10:39 PM.
                      Seattle Drain Service

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                      • #12
                        Re: no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

                        yes, we have done outside grading and a french drain around the house to catch ALL surface water and guide them away from the house. we are sure we are fine regarding the surface water.

                        Now we need to handle the ground water when watertable is too high in very heavy rain.

                        I have opened few feet floor. my plan is use two 2" perforated pipes sitting side by side instead of one 4" perforated pipe. Then I only need a 4" or 5" deep trench.
                        Last edited by thisnewowner; 01-16-2011, 08:41 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

                          I would use 4" pipe because over time if it gets silt and mud in it the 4" allows extra space to keep functioning. Most service drains by code are 3" min. 4" is generally used.
                          Seattle Drain Service

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                          • #14
                            Re: no footing with my 1950 poured concrete house?

                            Originally posted by Cuda View Post
                            I would use 4" pipe because over time if it gets silt and mud in it the 4" allows extra space to keep functioning. Most service drains by code are 3" min. 4" is generally used.
                            I looked at the ground water on the basement last time. It was very clean. 4" will be the best but I am worrying about if I dig too deep it will weaken the foundation more.

                            I will leave few cleanouts to clean up the 2" pipes when necessary.

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