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  • Need a Locator for PVC

    I work for an irrigation company and we are trying to figure out the best way to trace our PVC piping that we install. Can anyone give me some insight about the equipment available?

  • #2
    Re: Need a Locator for PVC

    Not trying to be a smarta**, but why not do a set of as-built drawings by hand when you lay the pipe and set valves, heads, etc.



    Regards,

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Need a Locator for PVC

      If you are asking about locating pipe you will be installing I would recommend you install a tracer wire with the pipe so you can later use a Ridgid NaviTrack and Transmitter (by far the best choice) to locate it. If you are trying to trace pipe which you have already installed you will need to purchase an "Impulse Generator" which I believe only Metrotech sells.

      http://www.metrotech.com/pdt.asp?productselect=90

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Need a Locator for PVC

        Originally posted by biscuit View Post
        Not trying to be a smarta**, but why not do a set of as-built drawings by hand when you lay the pipe and set valves, heads, etc.



        Regards,
        Because even being off by a foot or so becomes "Sports Digging".

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Need a Locator for PVC

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          Because even being off by a foot or so becomes "Sports Digging".

          Mark

          Very true, I guess I was being a smarta**

          I should have read the question a little more carefully.

          Sorry about that Chrystlyz.

          Regards,

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Need a Locator for PVC

            install a tracer wire there it`s done Or learn how to witch like I do
            http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Need a Locator for PVC

              i want to reply to this one

              but not going to do it
              Charlie

              My seek the peek fundraiser page
              http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


              http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

              new work pictures 12/09
              http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

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              • #8
                Re: Need a Locator for PVC

                For localizing pvc pipes that are pressurized with water (and do not have a tracer wire) I would say the best tool is a pressure wave generator (thumper). There are only 2 manufacturers I know of that make a good device for this:

                Fast GmbH
                Sewerin GmbH

                Thumpers are not to be confused with knockers. Knockers have a small hammer that hits the outside of the pipe. This sound does not carry far compared to the thumpers. Thumpers are fittet to a valve and eject water in short bursts to create a water pressure wave that makes the the pipe "thump".

                When you have activated a thumper signal on the target line it can be located with a good ground microphone at depths of 1-3 meters and length of 50-300 meters depending on pressure and ground conditions.
                Regards,
                Severin A Eskeland, Eskeland Electronics AS, N-1400 Ski, NORWAY
                www.Detektor.no > Metal Detectors, Line Locators, Leak Detectors, Inspection Cameras, Data Loggers and Fault Locators

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Need a Locator for PVC

                  Originally posted by Tieger plumbing
                  If you did not use a tracer wire is it possible to run a wire (snake ) through the pipe and use a metal detector?
                  Ummm...kind of. I am not familiar with how sensitive or precise a metal detector can be. Depending on how deep your pipe is that may work or may not. If possible, which depends on the size of your pipe, access to it, number and type of bends, and distance of the run you are locating, I wold suggest the following:

                  - putting a mini see-snake in the line and locating it (only possible on 1 1/4 or bigger line, will not go thru the very tight elbows used in hot tubs and, often, irrigation)

                  I don't own Navitrak so you will have to discuss with someone more familiar with it, but if the issue is a wire to hook to then:

                  - running an electrician's fish tape or rotary snake thru line, using that to pull a tracer wire for a one time locate, or (and I 've never tried this so can't comment if it will work) using the fish tape or snake cable itself as the tracer wire for a one time locate.

                  Is this a one time gig or do you want to do this often on all your installations? If it's a one off, I'd say find someone in your area with the equipment and discuss with them. If you want to do this forever on all your installations, purchase the appropriate equipment and put the tracer wire in when you install. One final thought, the wires used for zone valves might work fine as a tracer wire and these are often laid right with the pipe... you might be able to unhook these from the valves and use them for part of what you are trying to do.
                  This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Need a Locator for PVC

                    Originally posted by Ace Sewer View Post
                    Ummm...kind of. I am not familiar with how sensitive or precise a metal detector can be. Depending on how deep your pipe is that may work or may not. If possible, which depends on the size of your pipe, access to it, number and type of bends, and distance of the run you are locating, I wold suggest the following:

                    - putting a mini see-snake in the line and locating it (only possible on 1 1/4 or bigger line, will not go thru the very tight elbows used in hot tubs and, often, irrigation)

                    I don't own Navitrak so you will have to discuss with someone more familiar with it, but if the issue is a wire to hook to then:

                    - running an electrician's fish tape or rotary snake thru line, using that to pull a tracer wire for a one time locate, or (and I 've never tried this so can't comment if it will work) using the fish tape or snake cable itself as the tracer wire for a one time locate.

                    Is this a one time gig or do you want to do this often on all your installations? If it's a one off, I'd say find someone in your area with the equipment and discuss with them. If you want to do this forever on all your installations, purchase the appropriate equipment and put the tracer wire in when you install. One final thought, the wires used for zone valves might work fine as a tracer wire and these are often laid right with the pipe... you might be able to unhook these from the valves and use them for part of what you are trying to do.
                    He made one post 7 1/2 months ago and never came back. Hopefully he got it figured out. As for the metal detector Sylvan recommended, you would have so many false readings it would not be worth using.

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Need a Locator for PVC

                      it is possible to trace fish tape, a camera's push cable, or any other metalic line you can get into the line. It is not full proof though. It is not as good as if there were trace wire, but it is possible. Fish tape, or a c-1 cable or smaller would work (think K-39 or one of our spinners, just cut off the bulb head). The key is to deploy as much of the wire as possible. The more wire in contact with the pipe, the easier it is for signal to get into the ground to complete a return path to the transmitter.

                      If you are using a fish tape or a cable, connect one end of the transmitter to the tape or cable making sure that there is not an easy path to ground (i.e. the wire and transmitter clamp are not touching the dirt where you connect). connect the other end of the transmitter to a good ground spike (i.e. losts of metal in contact with the earth). Using 33kHz or higher for your frequency and making sure that there is some moisture in the line will help.
                      Mark F. Fleming<br />Product Manager<br />RIDGID/Kollmann

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Need a Locator for PVC

                        seems odd to me that you can get any current at all thru a pvc pipe wall to the ground, but obviously it works somehow... clearly im not familiar with this system; i have a mini see snake and use that for locates
                        This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Need a Locator for PVC

                          the cable acts as an antenna. the better way would to fish a stranded insulated wire, such as a 16-18 gauge wire. fold it so that you're pushing the wire all the way to the end of the line and the other half is looping back to the open/ starting end.

                          this gives you a complete loop and the transmitter can then be hooked up to the ends of wires. one jumper to each end.

                          this will act just like a tracer wire as if you buried it in the ditch at the time of installation.

                          the real trick is getting the fish tape to push past any water type of fitting. 45's are not bad, 90's are next to impossible on a smaller water fitting.

                          rick.
                          phoebe it is

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                          • #14
                            Re: Need a Locator for PVC

                            I have heard this example of pushing a loop down a line. I have never seen it work. Typically the return path cancels out the supply and no traceable signal is present.

                            Pushing an unisulated cable down the line works surprisingly well. There is no such thing as perfect insulation. More wire in the line and a moist line allows for signal to blead through the plastic piping. Higher frequency allows for inductive coupling with the soil or other metalic lines in the soil.

                            The more moisture in the soil, the lower the impedance, the better the circuit, the better the chance for success.

                            Not a perfect solution, but an option that will work especially in moist soils and when there is water in the line.
                            Mark F. Fleming<br />Product Manager<br />RIDGID/Kollmann

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Need a Locator for PVC

                              You might want to visit www.magneticlocator.com and click on the Mag Snake tab. The mag snake features a collection of strong permanent magnets attached to the end of an electricians, stainless steel wire snake. With lengths to 200', you insert the Mag Snake into the PVC pipe and use the DML2000 magnetic locator on the surface and walk along tracing the progress of the magnetic header as the Mag Snake is pushed through the pipe.

                              Regards,
                              Warren Dunham

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