Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Best way to locate this?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Best way to locate this?

    Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
    What is it with you? Are you a grammarian also?

    Or do you have some sort of CSD? (Compulsive Spelling Disorder)
    Nope it is just my way of saying thanks for laughing when I lost my voice!

    I tried to call you to tell you but no answer.
    I love my plumber

    "My Hero"

    Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Best way to locate this?

      she has been around Rick so long it drives her crazy when someone else spells something wrong. it's like "i have to deal with Ricks spelling everyday. now someone else is spelling this way? how could this be? being here is like being in classroom full of kids!"
      the only dumb question is the one that is not asked!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Best way to locate this?

        Is the slab reinforced with re bar? I work with Geo techs. The dirt settlement is called slough off. 24" is HUGE. come winter they have a stream flowing under the slab. I know this is not Your problem. They need to bust ,up re plumb, and pour new slab.
        What You say?? No money! Howd I know! T+M would be wise for You.
        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Best way to locate this?

          Did you say the sewer out side is 15' At 10' I have a hard time locating with great confidence. How deep do you think the pipe is under the slab? If it is terribly deep and actually in cast not clay this may be the trouble. Or did I not read something right?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Best way to locate this?

            Maybe a dumb question but is there a side sewer card at permits for when it was built just as a starting point?
            Seattle Drain Service

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Best way to locate this?

              Originally posted by MrsSeatDown View Post
              Nope it is just my way of saying thanks for laughing when I lost my voice!

              I tried to call you to tell you but no answer.

              Yea, I tried to answer but then I saw it was you

              The main in the street is clay but the house sewer is cast. Pulled the manhole out back and measured 15 feet deep No paper records from 1910

              I'd hate to call in someone else to locate but it may come to that

              Thinking about replumbing everything overhead from first and second floor and then pumping the basement bath with an ejector. Cost about the same either way but less disruptive to the homeowner.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Best way to locate this?

                I'd disgree with the ejector; they just always want some attn and it'll be your baby. cast throws me a bit on locates, and at that depth i'm not shocked it's screwy. I'd just dig and replace, and the whole slab needs to come out anyway because of the void under it, so just bust it up, dig, and follow the line.
                This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Best way to locate this?

                  bill, i take it you're using the built in sonde in the camera?

                  what camera and what pipe material are you in?

                  stay away from computer monitors or turn them off.


                  are you 100% sure that the pipe is not steel pipe.

                  cast is ok, but steel is not.

                  do you need me to divert on my way home?

                  i'm halfway to your house

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Best way to locate this?

                    I'll bring My hoe, dump truck. and 20' CONTAINER [ ROLL OFF] full of tools. Need someone to drive the motor home. there ain't SNOW THERE,IS THERE!!?????
                    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Best way to locate this?

                      bill if you want i can come and help [ play ] fri
                      Charlie

                      My seek the peek fundraiser page
                      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                      http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                      new work pictures 12/09
                      http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Best way to locate this?

                        Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                        Attempted to locate using the sonde transmitter and Ridgid Scout for repairs but got some really strange readings.... This has also caused the sewer to belly and separate at a few joints.


                        It's difficult to diagnose without seeing the situation first-hand and observing what you did and the readings you got. For sure the void under the slab is not the problem. Magnetic fields are not blocked by air (or voids). They can, however, be shielded by cast iron pipes.



                        I would be interested in knowing a little more about the readings you got when locating the sonde. Were you able to find one or both poles? The equator? How did the signal strength reading behave?


                        About the Line trace:
                        First off, were you doing an Integrated Line Trace (energizing the SeeSnake push cable with a line tracing signal)? If you were, were you connected to your monitor's Transmitter Clip-On Terminal, or were you using the inductive clamp?



                        The leakage from the sewer line has probably nearly saturated the soil under the slab with electrolytes and water. That makes the soil very conductive. The pulled apart joints make the pipe an intermittent conductor. The combination makes for difficult to understand locates. The best thing to do is to push the camera out as far as possible. If at that point the camera is in water (like in the main), use a low frequency like 1k or 8k on the transmitter. Low frequencies tend not to bleed over onto water pipes and other utilities. But, low frequencies tend to need better “grounding” at the camera head to work at all. Hence the recommendation to use low frequencies only if the camera head is in water. If the camera head is in dry pipe when pushed all the way out, try 33k first.

                        Another thing to pay attention to is your monitor's power cord. If your monitor is running off AC power, some or even most of the signal may flow through the power cord into the facility wiring. With trace signal flowing through various facility cables and the sewer pipe, you again have a nightmare locate. A quick test of this problem is to simply unplug the Monitor after everything else is set up.


                        If your monitor has a battery power option, use it. If not, try running it off a car battery and power inverter.


                        If you're connecting to the monitor's clip-on terminal, run the transmitter's ground to a stake outside the building, away from your guess as to where the sewer is, and pour a bit of water on the stake (Gatorade works even better). If everything is set up right you should at least be able to trace the ground wire back to the transmitter and the camera's push cable between the reel and the access point -- this tells you that you've got a complete circuit with current flowing through it.


                        Hope this helps!


                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Best way to locate this?

                          Thank you, this was very helpful

                          Originally posted by irguy View Post

                          It's difficult to diagnose without seeing the situation first-hand and observing what you did and the readings you got. For sure the void under the slab is not the problem. Magnetic fields are not blocked by air (or voids). They can, however, be shielded by cast iron pipes.



                          I would be interested in knowing a little more about the readings you got when locating the sonde. Were you able to find one or both poles? The equator? How did the signal strength reading behave?
                          Signal strength fluxuated very high then way low without even moving the locator. The equator was spinning like this--->>>>

                          About the Line trace:
                          First off, were you doing an Integrated Line Trace (energizing the SeeSnake push cable with a line tracing signal)? If you were, were you connected to your monitor's Transmitter Clip-On Terminal, or were you using the inductive clamp?

                          For the line trace I first used the battery operated camera with the clip attached to the Clip-on terminal. The Brick grounded to the copper main water line where it enters the house. No way to get the ground rod outside into the earth. Not sure if grounding to the water service would be a problem? Pulled the camera out then used the snake cable. Same result. No problem tracing the first few feet then the reading goes haywire.

                          The leakage from the sewer line has probably nearly saturated the soil under the slab with electrolytes and water. That makes the soil very conductive. The pulled apart joints make the pipe an intermittent conductor. The combination makes for difficult to understand locates. The best thing to do is to push the camera out as far as possible. If at that point the camera is in water (like in the main), use a low frequency like 1k or 8k on the transmitter. Low frequencies tend not to bleed over onto water pipes and other utilities. But, low frequencies tend to need better “grounding” at the camera head to work at all. Hence the recommendation to use low frequencies only if the camera head is in water. If the camera head is in dry pipe when pushed all the way out, try 33k first.

                          Another thing to pay attention to is your monitor's power cord. If your monitor is running off AC power, some or even most of the signal may flow through the power cord into the facility wiring. With trace signal flowing through various facility cables and the sewer pipe, you again have a nightmare locate. A quick test of this problem is to simply unplug the Monitor after everything else is set up.

                          Very helpful

                          If your monitor has a battery power option, use it. If not, try running it off a car battery and power inverter.


                          If you're connecting to the monitor's clip-on terminal, run the transmitter's ground to a stake outside the building, away from your guess as to where the sewer is, and pour a bit of water on the stake (Gatorade works even better). If everything is set up right you should at least be able to trace the ground wire back to the transmitter and the camera's push cable between the reel and the access point -- this tells you that you've got a complete circuit with current flowing through it.


                          Hope this helps!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Best way to locate this?

                            OK, I can officially certify your sonde readings as bizarre! In the cases I've seen where the receiver is picking up something intermittently, it was a signal other than the sonde -- a computer monitor, for example. I've also seen something similar with a battery powered sonde when its battery gets low.

                            When locating with a battery powered monitor, it's not a bad idea to turn the camera's lighting down to reduce current draw.

                            Have you tested your sonde, with the same monitor, outside a pipe? If so, how far away can you be and still pick up a solid signal?

                            Grounding your transmitter to the water pipe could definitely be an issue. Consider spooling up 100' of wire on a cord reel and outfiting the ends with alligator clips as a means of extending your ground.

                            The key to locating is creating a circuit that gets current to flow on the conductor you want, and ONLY on that conductor. Herding the electrons can be almost as difficult as herding cats, but if you keep in mind that electrical current, like water, always takes the path of least resistance and you should be OK.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Best way to locate this?

                              If your monitor has a battery power option, use it. If not, try running it off a car battery and power inverter.
                              A (1:1) isolation transformer might also work.
                              "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                              https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Best way to locate this?

                                You can also try to direct connecting the Brick directly to the cast iron line and doing a line locate. If the soil is wet around the pipe then the current may bleed off, but on a dry day you should be able to locate it.

                                Also, if you ground to the water line, keep in mind that the water line is now part of your circuit, Your current is probably stronger on a copper water line than on a camera push rod or cast iron line.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X