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Locating question, need suggestions please.

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  • Locating question, need suggestions please.

    One of my customers has an 8" PVC C-900 fire line and we need to positively locate, it does not have a trace wire. This is in an industrial plant with large storm drains, underground telephone and underground eletrical in the same area. The fire line is buried at around 8 to 10 feet (fill dirt was brought in after another project). They built a new addition to the plant and the corner of the building is sitting on the 10" loop fire line that I will need to relocate from under the building. There is an 8" run-in into another building that we need to locate. The old prints show how it is susposed to be, but it is not.

    I can turn the water off with a couple of sectional valves and gain access to the 8" from inside of the building. What would be needed to run through the inside of the pipe to locate it at a maximum of 10 foot. This would be around 180 feet of pipe. Worst case would be two 8" MJ 90* with in four feet of each other at the very begining of the locate (this is where it comes into the building).

    G3

  • #2
    Re: Locating question, need suggestions please.

    A camera with a sonde/transmitter built into it and a locator.

    Or a sonde on the end of a cable with a locator.

    You'd want to make sure the cable or camera is cleaned thoroughly before beginning and maybe flush, test, & chlorinate the line afterwards for precaution.

    J.C.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Locating question, need suggestions please.

      Is this something that is simple enough for a dummy like me to figure out (if I could even find a rental unit in town) or would it just be easier to call out a plumber/locater type outfit.

      As far as rechlorinating the line, this is a dedicated fire line with a double detector check at the begining of it.

      If you ran a camera down the pipe can you clearly see under water?? would not be able to pump it dry like a sewer line.

      G3

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Locating question, need suggestions please.

        Originally posted by G3sprinklers View Post
        Is this something that is simple enough for a dummy like me to figure out (if I could even find a rental unit in town) or would it just be easier to call out a plumber/locater type outfit.

        As far as rechlorinating the line, this is a dedicated fire line with a double detector check at the begining of it.

        If you ran a camera down the pipe can you clearly see under water?? would not be able to pump it dry like a sewer line.

        G3
        Yes you would definitely be able to figure it out. I honestly don't think you will find a rental for a Navitrack, Camera, and/or a Sonde. If you do, great. None is available here & I'm just one state over with probably a similar community.

        If not, call some plumbers that are longterm locals and they might have what you need.

        My experience is that if the water is reasonably clear without too much sediment, you can see using the camera with a line completely filled.

        The movement of the camera will stir some sediment but it does settle down if you're patient.

        I'm talking of sewer lines with clear water. Your line should be even clearer.

        J.C.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Locating question, need suggestions please.

          GPR (Ground Penetrating Radar) would be another choice. Expensive to get set up though. You might be better off subbing it out if you go this route unless you can make a case for your own equipment with a reasonable payback period.
          ---------------
          Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
          ---------------
          “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
          ---------
          "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
          ---------
          sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Locating question, need suggestions please.

            Thanks, I will see if there is any rentals around and then find a plumbing/locater outfit and give them a shout out.

            I think it would be cheaper than trying to uncover it in spots with a backhoe, that is what the maint. guy is going for at the moment.

            How far can you push one of these out, mmight need to do another line that would be some where in the 350 foot range.

            G3

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Locating question, need suggestions please.

              Originally posted by G3sprinklers View Post
              Thanks, I will see if there is any rentals around and then find a plumbing/locater outfit and give them a shout out.

              I think it would be cheaper than trying to uncover it in spots with a backhoe, that is what the maint. guy is going for at the moment.

              How far can you push one of these out, mmight need to do another line that would be some where in the 350 foot range.

              G3
              It would be better to wait for Rick, Ace Sewer, Seweratz etc. to respond as they have more experience.

              I will say, from what I've read, that 300' with the largest SeeSnake pushrod would be close to impossible on anything with any turns.

              I've also read of some "shooting" the jetter to the other end, tying the camera on, and pulling back through on a long run.

              J.C.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Locating question, need suggestions please.

                i actually did some at disneylands, california adventure just before they opened. they forgot to expose a shut off that served a hydrant in the park and i was able to camera the line and locate where to core drill and pot hole. ductile iron pipe was very difficult to get a signal with my locator.

                the problem with pushing large diameter pipe is that the push rod will always have some flex in it. the larger the pipe, the more snaking of the camera push rod.

                a pull rope will do wonders with the inspection. plastic is slick so you you'll get a good push. plastic is also easy to penetrate with the sonde and 512hz. so locating will be easy. plus straight runs are even easier to connect the dots.

                truthfully hire a local pro and they can assist you in the task. you prep the lines and help pull ropes. they will supply the equipment and it's a win , win for both of you

                when do you need this done

                rick.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Locating question, need suggestions please.

                  Another option would be to find someone with an impulse generator and a leak locator. You test it with the water on, the pulse generator sends a signal into the pipe and the locator listens for it.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Locating question, need suggestions please.

                    Only one end of the pipe can we get to, the other end is what we are looking for so pulling the sonde with a rope is out of the question. We actually think the 10 x 10 x 8 tee is located under the new building.

                    The one or two 90*'s would be at the very begining of the open pipe where the sonde would be introduced.

                    G3

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Locating question, need suggestions please.

                      the jetter is a good way to launch the camera farther down. just make sure to keep the camera a few feet back so it doesn't get blasted.

                      also a fibeglass push rod like the utilitiy companies use will also help stiffen up the push rod.

                      i have both

                      rick.
                      phoebe it is

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Locating question, need suggestions please.

                        Thanks for all of the suggestions, I let the customer know that he had some more choices rather than digging up the road and parking lot (even though bot are gravel, I still makes a big mess.

                        Rick don't start packin your bags just yet

                        WOW I could not believe how expensive a seesnake with monitor and a locator cost. Must be good stuff, duh I forgot it is Ridgid.

                        G3

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Locating question, need suggestions please.

                          GPR has no limitation on pipe length. Someone who is proficient at using a GPR will be able to ID a leak too, just had a guy come out to our site and find a leak in a 8" fire main 7 foot deep. He gave us photos (screenshots) of the GPR display in his report.
                          ---------------
                          Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                          ---------------
                          “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                          ---------
                          "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                          ---------
                          sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                          Comment

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