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Why Invest in a SeeSnake Monitor

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  • #16
    Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake Monitor

    If all you have is 60' sewers in a typical yard then there is no need for a camera or sonde for that matter. However, that is such a small part of what we see out there. We have not even talked about interior piping that has a problem. What do you do when the mine line running through a commercial property has a fitting or belly that needs repairing? What if it is under the floor of a house full of marble floors? Sure you can start tearing things up until you fine the right area, I see guys without cameras do it all of the time. Or you can make an informed evaluation of the situation and minimize the ensuing damages.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake Monitor

      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
      If all you have is 60' sewers in a typical yard then there is no need for a camera or sonde for that matter. However, that is such a small part of what we see out there. We have not even talked about interior piping that has a problem. What do you do when the mine line running through a commercial property has a fitting or belly that needs repairing? What if it is under the floor of a house full of marble floors? Sure you can start tearing things up until you fine the right area, I see guys without cameras do it all of the time. Or you can make an informed evaluation of the situation and minimize the ensuing damages.

      Mark
      I call a sub contractor with a geneye camera and locator. he comes out and I locate while he runs the camera. that costs me between 100-200.00

      Now thats for problems under slabs.....few and far between. Cant pay for the equipment before somthign happens to the camera maybe....like the kinks I've been reading about.

      I've never torn a building up looking for a problem

      I just need a sonde and locator so I can map direction and how deep the line is. Some places are noisy with traffic etc and you cant hear the cable....or the ground is super hard and impossible to probe.

      Again I never said there was not a use for a camera.....thats why the title of the thread is misleading.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: the new toys that josh is sharing

        Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post
        What option do you provide for the client that has a sewer line that runs under a nice concrete patio or through a garden that contains high end plantings perhaps across a road do you replace the whole thing? what if an application of rootx every few years will mitigate their problem rather than a 10k sewer line replacement? How would i be milking a client when in lieu of a 5 to 6k sewer replacement I can snake camera and apply rootx every 3 years at a rate of say 500 for the next 15 years totaling 2.5k? I guess I am milking my client then and getting them real good as opposed to blindly going in digging up their front yard and replacing pipe that my not even have to be replaced.

        I have the equipment to excavate, trust me I don't mind using it either but it isn't right to upsell a sewer replacement blindly without #1 giving the client all their options and #2 SHOWING them why.

        A camera system isn't that expensive I was quoted 8k for a full size 325' color reel with all the bells and whistles, you can get a micro reel which will most likely suit most needs for less than 3k.
        Whats the cost of business going to be in 15 years? How much will gasoline cost? You cant predict the amount of money the customer will spend in 15 years.

        I hate to bring up experience but I've had customers that I have begged to let me replace their sewer. For 20 years I have tried to get them to let me repalce it. Over that 20 years they started out paying 40.00 to have their sewer cleaned and now its 150.00 an hour. 20 years ago I would have replaced the sewer for 1500.00. Now after years of paying 40-150 every year they are faced with now paying 4-6 thousand because its finally being broke by all the roots covering the pipe because all the joints are bad and leaking water into the ground...attracting roots......making replacement that much more difficult from all the biomat around the pipe and heavy infestation of roots in the pipes area.

        Now they are on a fixed income and cant afford replacement. They chose wants before needs in the past.....ignoring good advice.

        Or the guy who builds a 20,000 patio over 70 year old pipe because a guy with a camera said its in good shape...collects his 250 and runs.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake Monitor

          I started out by purchasing the Ridgid sonde that attaches to my cable and the Ridgid Scout to locate it with. It worked well for me if I already had a pretty good idea of what was in the ground, but I didn't know exactly where it was.

          But I don't always know what is in the ground, so I ended up buying a camera to take the guess work out of my job. It is not necessary on every job, but when you need it, it sure comes in handy.

          As for the cameras and monitors being expensive, I agree with you on that. But, you get what you pay for in my opinion. I have been very happy with all of my Ridgid cameras and locators. The few times I have had a problem, they have been very quick to get it taken care of.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake Monitor

            Originally posted by Nevada plumber View Post
            I started out by purchasing the Ridgid sonde that attaches to my cable and the Ridgid Scout to locate it with. It worked well for me if I already had a pretty good idea of what was in the ground, but I didn't know exactly where it was.
            It seems the sonde and locator should have told you exactly where it was and how deep.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              you're correct. it was started to keep another thread focused on the new products/ toys debuted at the trade show.

              so what would you like to call this thread and i'm sure it could be changed by the moderator.

              rick.
              How about this title....."Why does it cost thousands to connect a camera to a laptop"

              But I already know the answer because Ridge wants you to buy the whole system because the profit is out of this world on them.

              "Toys".....I like that.

              ADD>Basically the technology has existed for years..but Ridge wants people to think that a laptop cant do everything they are making can do besides the camera and pushrod part. All they needed to do is make cameras that connect to a laptop and write some software...they dont need to be making monitors that cost 4 times the amount of a laptop.
              Last edited by TheMaster; 03-08-2011, 01:30 PM. Reason: add>

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              • #22
                Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake Monitor

                There is a lot more to powering and controlling the camera than just a "cord" If your theory was correct that the LT1000 is just an expensive "cord" what do you think all the circuit boards inside the LT1000 are for. And why would we have you put a battery or plug an AC adapter into it? If we were really trying to dupe everyone into paying for a glorified cord then we could have made a lot more money filling it with lead .

                Truth is that there is a lot going on in the LT1000 itself and it is essential to running the Reel. You simply cant power or fully control a SeeSnake Reel with a laptop on its own.

                Josh

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake Monitor

                  Originally posted by Josh View Post
                  There is a lot more to powering and controlling the camera than just a "cord" If your theory was correct that the LT1000 is just an expensive "cord" what do you think all the circuit boards inside the LT1000 are for. And why would we have you put a battery or plug an AC adapter into it? If we were really trying to dupe everyone into paying for a glorified cord then we could have made a lot more money filling it with lead .

                  Truth is that there is a lot going on in the LT1000 itself and it is essential to running the Reel. You simply cant power or fully control a SeeSnake Reel with a laptop on its own.

                  Josh
                  The mirco explorer mounts on the mirco reel....it powers the camera right? Your telling me a laptop with software cant do what the explorer does in that combination? I realize the micro explorer is a stand alone camera but in this case we are using it for the micro reel. Why cant a laptop do the same?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake Monitor

                    How about building a camera that has simple RCA interconnects for video and a transformer to power it. Have a handheld dimmer control that plugs into the transformer.
                    I could connect that to my laptop and do whatever I wanted with the video at that point....software could be written to compliment a sewer camera video.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake Monitor

                      Master, I know this is a Ridgid forum but if your going to sit and bellyache about the price of Ridgid stuff go out and get a Vu-Rite that can be run off your laptop. Rod (UnClogNH) runs one and likes it, says its durable, etc. It just doesn't have many bells and whistles.

                      Or better yet, if it's all about the almighty dollar go spend less than a Vu-Rite on a camera system from Forbest, South Coast Equipment, or AmazingMachinery.com and have it break after one or two uses like Rod did and you may come to appreciate the old adage, "You get what you pay for."

                      Now, as far as the camera being "overused," think about it from this perspective: I am young(er) and do not have that level of experience you are talking about, nor do I have any customers that have used me for 25 years and trust me with their life. I want to give my customers the best service and value I can, but I don't want to make assumptions that could cost them in the long run. Furthermore, from a dollars and cents standpoint a camera looks profitable to me. I do not currently own one but I plan to purchase one in the near future. I too have replaced countless sewers, etc. etc. without one.

                      Just today we jackhammered out a patio because the cast iron sewer exited the house under it, and when it came out from under the slab it was orangeburg. The only access we had for cabling was the W/C or a 3" vent, and the crawlspace is not big enough to get under and measure, etc. so it was not possible to locate with a snake. Luckily we had a mag locator that we used and it picked up something close to the house, we hoped it was the cast iron. Cut the slab, dug, and viola, we lucked out and hit it dead on and the cast/orangeburg joint is right in the center of our trench. However, had we had a camera we would have located the joint ahead of time, and the customer would have trusted us MORE going in knowing that we knew the exact condition of the pipe, location, etc.

                      The plumbing industry as a whole is aging. In order for us younger ones to become competent we need to learn to use the modern methods and tools of the trade to the best advantage. We have to have proof of the problem because at 32 years old I simply can't look someone in the eye and say,"I've got 40 years experience and this is your problem." They want proof, and when I provide that proof I will earn a lot of the trust that your long relationship with your customers earned you.

                      And ya, you're going to say "Go work for a service plumber for 25 years and get experience," but I'll guarantee that once you own your own business and honestly feel like you do quality work at a fair price you likely won't close the doors and walk away to go get "experience."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake

                        Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                        ADD>Basically the technology has existed for years..but Ridge wants people to think that a laptop cant do everything they are making can do besides the camera and pushrod part. All they needed to do is make cameras that connect to a laptop and write some software...they dont need to be making monitors that cost 4 times the amount of a laptop.
                        When you don't have a lot of volume it is hard to make up the engineering expenses. To design a PCB there are a bunch of different people that need to be involved. You need a digital designer, a physical designer, a procurement person, and probably a software person too. Once you get the thing back, then you need to test it and debug it. You probably have a separate person to just look at signal integrity issues (depending on the board's complexity). Just picking simple parts is a pain, there are 182 different 12V to 3.3V regulators if I do a parts search on Digikey. A simple USB chip for a new design that I'm looking at has a 63 page data sheet, and then about 3 different relevant application notes (at 30 pages a piece).

                        And putting things together requires a bunch of mechanicals that are easy to overlook. Right now on one of our boards we're getting some magic smoke that makes them work come out. The current theory (because we don't actually know why yet) is that some of the capacitors filtering our input to the 350V regulators are cracking during handling because the 29" board is flexing too much. That causes a 350V to ground short, which in turn blows a resistor, and because most of the boards are assembled into a chassis when this happens we don't actually know why. Debugging this kind of thing takes a bunch of time, and if you don't have a lot of units you can't defray the cost across them.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake Monitor

                          Originally posted by SewerRat View Post
                          Master, I know this is a Ridgid forum but if your going to sit and bellyache about the price of Ridgid stuff go out and get a Vu-Rite that can be run off your laptop. Rod (UnClogNH) runs one and likes it, says its durable, etc. It just doesn't have many bells and whistles.

                          Or better yet, if it's all about the almighty dollar go spend less than a Vu-Rite on a camera system from Forbest, South Coast Equipment, or AmazingMachinery.com and have it break after one or two uses like Rod did and you may come to appreciate the old adage, "You get what you pay for."

                          Now, as far as the camera being "overused," think about it from this perspective: I am young(er) and do not have that level of experience you are talking about, nor do I have any customers that have used me for 25 years and trust me with their life. I want to give my customers the best service and value I can, but I don't want to make assumptions that could cost them in the long run. Furthermore, from a dollars and cents standpoint a camera looks profitable to me. I do not currently own one but I plan to purchase one in the near future. I too have replaced countless sewers, etc. etc. without one.

                          Just today we jackhammered out a patio because the cast iron sewer exited the house under it, and when it came out from under the slab it was orangeburg. The only access we had for cabling was the W/C or a 3" vent, and the crawlspace is not big enough to get under and measure, etc. so it was not possible to locate with a snake. Luckily we had a mag locator that we used and it picked up something close to the house, we hoped it was the cast iron. Cut the slab, dug, and viola, we lucked out and hit it dead on and the cast/orangeburg joint is right in the center of our trench. However, had we had a camera we would have located the joint ahead of time, and the customer would have trusted us MORE going in knowing that we knew the exact condition of the pipe, location, etc.

                          The plumbing industry as a whole is aging. In order for us younger ones to become competent we need to learn to use the modern methods and tools of the trade to the best advantage. We have to have proof of the problem because at 32 years old I simply can't look someone in the eye and say,"I've got 40 years experience and this is your problem." They want proof, and when I provide that proof I will earn a lot of the trust that your long relationship with your customers earned you.

                          And ya, you're going to say "Go work for a service plumber for 25 years and get experience," but I'll guarantee that once you own your own business and honestly feel like you do quality work at a fair price you likely won't close the doors and walk away to go get "experience."
                          So Hulihan paying $200.00+ for an interconnect cable is fair? if it was 400.00 would that be fair? Where is your limit? I suppose if I complain about the cost of gas I can walk? So no one can complain about the cost of a product anymore?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake Monitor

                            How freakin hard would it be to put a video out port on a micro explorer?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake Monitor

                              Even though we don't do as much drain cleaning as others here, I honestly wish we had a sewer camera. I think it would be a major asset to our business, and I wouldn't have to lose work because I don't have one.

                              Once in blue moon, I run across a sewer where no matter how many times I run my cable through it, I get a call a few weeks later saying it's backed up again. At that point it's out of my hands, because I don't have a sewer camera to truly diagnose the problem. I have plenty of guys who will cam the line for me, but a part of me feels embarrassed because I don't have one.

                              Eventually we will get one, and I think having a camera first, is more important than having a jetter right now as far as we go.

                              Yes they are expensive, but imo they are totally worth the expense, and I truly believe a customer will have "peace of mind" knowing I wasn't shooting in the dark by guessing what the problem could be.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Why Invest in a SeeSnake Monitor

                                Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                                So Hulihan paying $200.00+ for an interconnect cable is fair? if it was 400.00 would that be fair? Where is your limit? I suppose if I complain about the cost of gas I can walk? So no one can complain about the cost of a product anymore?
                                Like I said, Vu-Rite if that's what you want. Yes, you can walk.

                                Comment

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