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  • Additional Line for K-380

    Help! I am new to this forum, and have spent the last 2 hours enjoying the various postings, trying to see if any asked the question which I am now posting:

    Senario: We purchased a K-380 from Home Depot about a year ago. I guess it works okay, but we bought it specifically because of a problem that persists in the basement laundry room of 4plex unit we manage. It seems to us, every time the city "upgrades" the street outside our building, without fail, the basement floods with backed-up sewage! It last happened about a year or so ago, and now it has happened again! The city, of course, showed us how the main sewer line was running free, which, or course, meant they were not liable. The county, bless their hearts, were eager to show us the same, but with a little more caring and concern. Bottom line, we have sewage in the basement. Unhappy calls from tenants left us with little options but to try and clean out drain. The prior time, we paid well over $200 to have the line snaked; we wised up, then bought our own system.

    Weeeelllll, the line is too short! We are not able to snake all the way out to the city's main line, thus unable to reach any blockage. And blockage we do have, especially when it rains. The basement literally floods! I'm talking about 10-12" of standing water! Not all sewage, but when we pump out the top water, it is sewage in the last 2-3" of it! My son-in-law theorized, correctly I assume, that since the back gutter downspouts connect to clay pipes that lead under the building, presumably to connect to the sewer line, that is why we have so much clear water in the beginning. However, we know it is blockage (or something), because we cannot clear the sewer line at all. Once the rain dies down, it seems to seep, ever so slowly, down.

    Bottom line, I am about to pull my hair out!! After spending this past weekend snaking the line with about 100' of line, and trying to blow it out with a pressurized system, we STILL have blockage!!!!

    HELP!!!! First of all, we want to know if getting an additional 100' of line from Ridge for the K380 will help -- specifically, can it attach to the existing line? Want to know that pretty quick before I shell out the $165 plus s/h to get it in. Second, whatelse do you think could be causing the backup?? Need some old pros to help direct me in the right direction!! Much thanks!

  • #2
    Re: Additional Line for K-380

    First I have worked more as a building contractor, than as a plumber, also was a wast treatment plant operator, take it for what it is worth,
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    One of the first things I think you should find out is the type of blockage your dealing with,
    I would think that hiring some one to come and camera the line would be money well spent,
    That way you will be able to see if it is a blockage or a settled line or what is the actual cause is and you will then know how to deal with the problem.

    If the line is settled or collapsed, or roots, or there is some wad of plastic or cloth, or rocks,
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I have a K380 as well, and yes you could put an additional line on it, if the end are on both ends, but I don't think the machine would preform very well.
    and since the drum is not a removable drum I doubt if it was ever designed with the idea of adding at lest large amounts of addition line, and the end of the cable is bolted to the drum, there is not a short pig tail cable to attach to.

    manual for the 380,http://www.ridgid.com/ASSETS/F60293F...achine_Man.pdf

    It says with 3/8" the reach is 100' and with 1/2" the reach is 75', page page 4 of the actual manual, page numbering.

    As far as the reach of the K380, one way to solve the problem is to add a clean out down the line so you can reach the end,
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    It also sound like the storm sewer is joined with the sanitary sewer, (in many places this would be considered an illegal connection) and IMO that in its self could be a lot of the problem, also if that is the way a lot of the units are in the area, it is possible that some of the flooding could be the city's problem, (first in a non rain situation, the piping on the city sewer may be more than properly sized, but in a heavy rain it may be way to small thus adding to the flooding situation) and the only way one would know is to check the man hole or main when it is raining heavily and see if it is handling the load under those conditions.

    When I was in running a wast treatment plant in Montana in my younger days,
    we had a similar problem in that the clay line that was used for the sewer main of the school I worked in, (an old air force station), would run a full when we had a heavy rain storm (8" line), and would over load the wast treatment plant, this was down hill from the housing and the buildings so we did not have a flooding problem, but to solve the problem, we had to replace with new gasket-ed plastic pipe. to eliminate the infiltration we were having with the line.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Another thing depending on the type of blockage you may have the K-380 may not be enough machine to handle the problem, it is not a root machine, and the 3/8" cable is not heavy enough to really handle much more than a 2" line,
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Since the blockage is a reoccurring problem,

    Roots sounds like a good possibility, or a line that is settled and has a low spot in that is filling with debris, (in the above type of problem replacing or repairing the line is probably the better option), if it is roots, removing the tree, or shrubs, that is the cause could be considered.

    Could there be some one that is dumping large amounts of grease down the drains, (here is memo time to the tenants, also feminine hygiene products are not helpful either, the wast basket is a good place for them NOT the sewer), you would not believe the barrels of items I would rake off the intake screen to the wast treatment plant,

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    In some places they place a one way valve in the sewer line, so in theory if the main line would back up the building would not be flooded, but if that valve malfunctions and sticks it could causing or a blockage in your line to the street.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    this url has some good tips on it,
    http://www.sccmua.com/backup.htm
    Last edited by BHD; 03-27-2007, 11:01 PM.
    Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
    attributed to Samuel Johnson
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Additional Line for K-380

      One more thing as to the look of the water, in the flooded basement,
      one of the first things most books on wastewater treatment starts out saying is,

      Sewage is:

      "99.9% pure water"


      Wastewater is defined as the water borne wastes of a community. It contains approximately 99.9% pure water and 0.1% pollutants by weight.
      http://www.tweed.nsw.gov.au/Educatio...wastewater.htm
      http://www.answers.com/topic/sewage

      so remember that next time you buy a bar of ivory soap, LOL.
      Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
      attributed to Samuel Johnson
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Additional Line for K-380

        Hummmmmmmm


        Well well, I think $200 was better then buying a K-380 from Home Depot to try and be a DIY. It`s better left to the pro`s as that K-380 from Home Depot is not made to do main lines. Now thats the Bottom line

        There are reasons we get the big pay
        http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Additional Line for K-380

          Thanks to all who responded to my question. Believe it or not, I appreciate greatly ALL of the comments made, incl yours All Clear (lol). You certainly earn your money, I'm sure . . . But not so sure all of them do. Not sure I was trying to do mainline ??? was I??? Guess when I bought the machine, I was just trying to clear out any blockage, and the K380 didn't seem all that much smaller than the machine that the guy used who I paid $200 to. But, took your comment to heart, and have a "sewer expert" coming tomorrow to look in the line to see what's to be seen. His cost is only $117, so I'll report back after that . . .

          In any event, BHD, I suspect we have a settled or low line, since the sidewalk has dropped in front of the building. Doubt it is roots, since there are no trees (could grass be a problem??) and just some front yard in the front of the building. The property actually is not in Renton, but in the Rainier Beach area of Seattle, an older neighborhood. The building is 100% brick, built in about the early '50's or so. Solid as a rock, but I suspect everything is old, as the pipes are cast iron. I never doubt that tenants clog the drain with grease, as we have sent numerous letters advising them that this not an acceptable way to dispose of the grease (down the drains). That problem usually shows up in a clogged kitchen and/or connected bath/tub drain line. I just don't think that the problem lies there, since we NEVER, and I repeat NEVER have had a problem until the city started "improving" the sidewalk and street in the front of the building two years ago. Now, EVERY TIME they do something major in the front, we have a backed up sewer. They just dug up the planting strip in the front of the building (all along the street, actually) and planted trees. Sure enough, as soon as the trees were planted, we had a back up.

          ToUtahNow, what is a mainline machine? To all, what is a link machine? Are they different? What is the difference between using a machine vs jetting the line? What about blowing (??) the line??

          Interesting enough, we had quite a bit of rain last night. I went to the property today, fully expecting the basement to be flooded again. It wasn't. Maybe all of the snaking over the weekend was not in vain, since no backup, but some standing water in the outside sewer line. I'll know better by tomorrow, since we are expecting more rain (welcome to Seattle, boys).

          I must say, I am so pleased that you experts looked at my posting. My husband was quite impressed with the detailed response, and wants to know, if the K380 is not the machine, what is? What do you guys know about the Gurlick (sp?). We have an opportunity to get one from a pawn shop for $900 (they wanted $1800, but no takers -- wonder why??). It is a model 62, with two 100' lines and two 50' lines. Do those connect to make a total of 200' and 100', respectively? Is it better than the K380? Is that something we should invest in?

          Finally, we have considered the potential cost of replacing the sewer line that leads out to the street. Am thinking that it is cost prohibitive at this point, since money is tight and we are limping it along. But, have had to face the sobering truth that it may end up being that -- we are hoping, nay, PRAYING, that this does not end up there. When the sewer expert comes tomorrow, I'll have him camera the line and tell me what's up. I'll report back. Thanks, all, for the postings.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Additional Line for K-380

            By the way, BHD, had a hard time bathing in my Ivory soap!!! That was great!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Additional Line for K-380

              The reason I suspect you have a main line stoppage is if your stoppage was limited to your laundry room the flooding would stop when you stop using the laundry. The fact that your basement gets flooded tells me your tenants are continuing to use their plumbing because they have no way of knowing the main line is stopped up. The more they use their plumbing the more there is spilling back through the laundry room floor drain.

              I would be surprised if you are getting storm water into your basement. It is illegal to have storm water and wastewater mixed. With the exception of a few of the older Cities on the East coast I don’t know of any Cities where they blend their wastewater and storm water.

              The Gorlitz 62 is a 5/8” cage machine which I consider too small for a main line machine and could get you hurt in a hurry. A better choice for you might be the Ridgid K-60. Here is a link which includes a video of the K-60 in action:

              http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/K60-Drain-Machine/index.htm

              You would have to buy extra 7/8” cable as the kit only comes with 75’ but you could still get everything you needed for under $2,000. As a bonus Ridgid has a promotion where you could get a free 5/8” cable kit just for buying the K-60. Between the K-380 and the K-60 you would have everything you could ever need short of a small top snake.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Additional Line for K-380

                Originally posted by maxienterprises View Post

                what is a mainline machine?
                Any questions?
                http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Additional Line for K-380

                  where do I find that promotion on the K-60?
                  I was thinking about getting one for doing basement jobs as my K-7500 is a 2 man job in basements


                  Forget it, I found the pro-mo
                  Last edited by All Clear Sewer; 03-28-2007, 12:10 PM.
                  http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Additional Line for K-380

                    http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Spring-Fling-2007/

                    Originally posted by All Clear Sewer View Post
                    where do I find that promotion on the K-60?
                    I was thinking about getting one for doing basement jobs as my K-7500 is a 2 man job in basements

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Additional Line for K-380

                      Found it Josh, Thanks anyway
                      http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Additional Line for K-380

                        i would like to see a heavier, tighter wound k-60 cable. the k-50/ 5/8'' cable comes in 3 different winds.

                        the k-60 would benifit from a stiffer/ heavy duty, cable. so would i

                        josh, help me/ us on this request

                        rick.

                        sorry for twisting this thread. i was too late to input my 2 cents.

                        the suggestions, all sound good to go.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Additional Line for K-380

                          Okay, gents, the results are in!

                          I met with a sewer & drain specialist today re: my stopped basement problem. He ran 110' of cable line in the drain; nothing. We had ran 100' of cable on Saturday.

                          Then he pulled out the camera. Pretty interesting! Even more interesting was that at 93' the view changed from murky sewage floating in water to solid, and he was unable to push the camera cable down further.

                          Diagnosis: build up of sludge in the pipes. To reach the main line, we had to get to almost 150', so at 93', we have quite a bit of sludge build up. It was most enlightening.

                          Tomorrow he is back to flush the line (?) with water jets running at 3000 rpm (or something like that). He expressed worry initially that he would have a problem getting from 93' to 150+/- ' to the city's main sewer line, then told me he would make it work. He quoted me a price of $350 to do the service, and advised that it was a great price since it typically costs about $600-700 for the service. No charge for snaking it and running the camera. I don't know if it is a good price or not, but the sludge factor was undeniable.

                          When he pulled his camer back out, the line was coated with the sludgey sewage (ewww!!). Yeah, All Clear, I do see why you get paid the big bucks. His next question to me was "where is the nearest car wash??? I need to power wash my equipment down." Go figure!

                          Although he volunteered to perform the service without my being there, I am now totally fascinated with the whole process. He understood; after being in the business for 13+ years, he said he was initially fascinated. Now, at the tender age of 31, he is burnt out on doing residential jobs. He said he hates trying to sell the customer and convince them to get jobs done, since he is paid on commission. Understandable, being in sales myself. I hope the price was fair, because I told him to "let's do it!"

                          I did ask him about the Gorlitz, and he replied that it was a bigger, tougher version of the K-380 (in his opinion). His machine was a big monster, weighing in at 300 lbs, he said. It took a winch to get it back into the back of his truck!! He scoffed at using a link-type machine, telling me that those were a piece of crap and to stay away from them if I wanted to avoid heartache. Opinions, anyone?

                          Viewing the links sent, what is the difference between my K-380 and the 3800? and up? They look the same to me. Should we upgrade to something bigger and/or more commercial? What about investing in the equipment that does the water jetting? What does one of those set someone back, and is it a good investment? Today, I can see where it would be. Would it be wise to invest in one of those in the future?

                          And what are the chances that the sludge factor will return in the future? What would have caused it in the beginning? Or, would snaking the line occassionally throughout the year suffice? I need some direction here, guys. Would something like that be considered routine maintenance? Should I have the other properties I manage snaked for convenience sake (and to avoid future issues, if there be any)?? Will the K-380 be able to handle that?

                          I've enjoyed your participation immensely, and thank you all for your valuable input.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Additional Line for K-380

                            I have been doing plumbing for 35-years and I have used both sectional machines and drum machines during that time. The advantage to a drum machine is they gets the job done quickly. The disadvantage to a drum machine is they are heavy, take up a lot of room, potential dangerous to the user and often cannot clear stoppages a sectional machine can.

                            The debate between sectional machines and drum machines has been going on for a long time. When I sold my business of 20-years I could have kept and drain cleaning equipment I wanted. There is a reason I kept all sectional machines. As for a jetter I think I would wait a little longer and see how you do with a snake first.

                            Your real question now should be what is causing the sludge to build up in your line. Hopefully after a good cleaning your plumber will run his camera again and find your problem.

                            Good luck-Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Additional Line for K-380

                              Well Lets see here,
                              He ran the camera while the line was still stopped up? I always clear the line so I can see why and where the problems are as you cant see in murky water.
                              Look at it this way,
                              if you were to stick your head in the sewer murky water you couldn't see so why would you even try with-out first snaking the line out?

                              I have a problem with guys that claim to be sewer guys that don't take the right steps such as only having 100` of cable on the truck...errrrr

                              A real drain specialist would have at least 200` on the truck at all times. I get to hear it all the time "Roto-Rooter was out hear and he had to go back to the shop and get more cable and he charged me extra for it" Pisses me off that some claim to be drain specialist when they just do everything to take more time so they can charge more money for the same job that could have been done in 1/2 the time.

                              Should he have charged you to run the camera???? "NO" Why not? because the line was not ready to be viewed as you cant see through a turd.

                              Should he have charged you to run 110 cable in the line "NO" because he should have had more cable ready to go on the line when he was starting on the job.

                              Now as far as the price he quoted of $350.00, Hard to say as the line is not clear yet.

                              Heres how I charge out sewer jobs,

                              Cable sewer............................................. ....$70 an hour
                              Vider Inspection After Cable...........................flat fee of $75.00
                              Video inspection of line that I have not cabled..$100 an hour
                              Sewer Locates........................................... ....$50 for a line I cabled
                              Sewer Locates........................................... ....$100 an hour on non cabled sewers

                              So as you see it`s hard to say if his price is high or not till the job is done.
                              Most sewer jobs only take me about an hour or less but if you have a problem such as a broken line causing the slug build up it`s hard to say till you get the water level down so you can use the camera to find the problem.
                              Either way, if he`s a drain specialist he should have enough cable on his truck before he starts the job!!!!
                              And in my eyes, A Drain Specialist should have some plumbing in his back ground so he knows how a drain/waste line should work. Ok I`m done ranting, for now anyway...lol
                              Last edited by All Clear Sewer; 03-29-2007, 09:57 AM.
                              http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

                              Comment

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