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  • KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

    I use the KJ-1750 (115 volt) for work where having the machine indoors is necessary. It suits its purpose for the most part, but it does have its limitations. The most common problem I run into is the lack of availability of a 20amp outlet in residential applications. Commercial jobs usually aren't such a problem finding an outlet that fits, but finding one that isn't sharing power with another can sometimes be difficult. Getting to the point -- often times I will bring a generator (it is a top-of-the-line Yamaha) to use as my power source, so all I have to do is run a 10/3 extension cord to the machine. This has worked well until just the other day when I was in a nasty, muddy crawl space with just enough room to squeeze my head between the joists and ground, with creepy spider crickets crawling all over me -- this is always the type of situation I am in when something (flashlight, DeWalt drill, etc.) decides to stop working, or I forget to bring something in with me. Any way, at first, the jetter got up to pressue and worked fine for about two minutes, then the 20amp breaker on the generator tripped. I thought, no problem, it's happened before, so I reset the breaker and turned the jetter on -- pop -- the breaker trips again. After several attempts, the thermal overload switch on the jetter popped, so I thought it would be best to stop trying anymore. It was acting as if the jetter was trying to start with the pump being under full pressure, causing an overload, but nothing I could see backs-up that theory. This kept happening, so I abandoned the jetter approach and dragged the K-60 in with me to get the job done -- I actually had to scrape-out a little ditch with my hammer under two joists so the K-60 could get through. With the limited room to work with in that crawl space, it was a daunting task, but I managed.

    I am going to troubleshoot the jetter today at home, so I am starting by posting this thread. The only problem with being at home is, I don't have any 20amp circuits to plug into, so I will have to use the generator. So, if the breaker on the generator is the problem, I will have a hard time working this out. Can anybody first tell me how to check the integrity of the 20amp breaker on my generator? Also, as a side note: I was not using an extension cord when I had the problem the other day -- I was able to get the cord through an access to the crawl space and hookup directly to the generator.

    Thank you,

    Bruce

  • #2
    Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

    Put a clamp on ampmeter on one of the wires(not ground) when you plug in the jetter. This will tell you the amps it's drawing when it trips
    Buy cheap, buy twice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

      Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
      Put a clamp on ampmeter on one of the wires(not ground) when you plug in the jetter. This will tell you the amps it's drawing when it trips
      When you say "one of the wires" are you talking about one that is inside the switch box?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

        If you have a clamp on amp meter, to check the actual amps that are being pulled,

        does the generator have two breakers or is it one that you can tie both sides together and get all the power of the generator out of one 115 out let?
        if it has two try the other one.

        at home wire in a 20 amp circuit if all else fails for you own use, or go to a neighbors.

        to check out the circuit breaker, if you have a extension cord with multiple receptacles, take a electric heater, (use the clamp on amp meter) see what it is pulling, and then add addition resistance loads on until your pulling the name plate of the jetter and see if it trips the breaker,

        breakers do can weak if tripped a number of times,

        for a test replace the breaker,
        Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
        attributed to Samuel Johnson
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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        • #5
          Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

          Originally posted by brucestorey View Post
          When you say "one of the wires" are you talking about one that is inside the switch box?
          Yes, when you take out the breaker, there should be wires conected to it. Never opened your generator up so I'm not sure how many. Leave the wires conected and put a clamp on 1 of the wires only. They do not work on extention cords or multiple wires. Plug the jetter in and start it up and see what amps you're drawing. They're will probably be exposed wires so DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING OTHER THEN THE ON/OFF SWITCH, just look at the clamp on.
          Buy cheap, buy twice.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

            or make your self a short extension cord with the out side jacket striped off of it, so you can get to all the wires individual, (they make a tool to do the same called a "ac-current-line-splitters") but you can make a short test cord,

            the clamp has to jsut go around one of the feed wires (either the black or white) I usually use the black The white and the black wire should have the same load.

            http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/cat...line-splitters
            Attached Files
            Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
            attributed to Samuel Johnson
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

              ben and bhd, you guys are good and wake up early. as i read and continued down, you guys nailed it and took my suggestions including the line splitter.

              i guess you got the a.m. and i'll check the p.m.

              problem with any decent electric jetter is power requirements. my electric is a 2 h.p. and will trip most 20 amp breakers after running under loads for a while.

              breaker will weaken like stated prior as they trip more. also you typically only want an 80% max load on a breaker. so that is 16 amps running. your,s is a starting issue and coming up to load.

              truthfully, that's why i carry a gas jetter in the truck too. a 6.5 horsepower will double the specs on the electric machine. plus it's a lot cheaper than running the generator and faster too.

              6.5 h.p = 2500 psi at 3 gpm. much better than the electric specs.

              for a test lower the pressure on the jetter and watch the amp meter. then crank up the pressure and watch. starting and stopping will surge the amperage and trip the already hot breakers.

              go gas and you'll be a happy plumber

              rick.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

                Bruce

                What model Yamaha generator are you using? Some have a 30 Amp 125 Volt (rated) twist lock receptacle. It may have a 30 Amp breaker. If it does you can make up a special short length extension cord which has the correct plug on one end.

                The KJ-1750 has a real 2 HP motor and they demand lots of starting current. I can see where it would trip a 20 Amp breaker on a 120 Volt circuit easy and especially if there was any back pressure when starting.

                Rick has a good idea of using an engine powered pressure washer for jetting.

                Please don't go taking your generator panel apart. Get the line splitter as pictured in the post by BHD. I've seen such in the electrical department of Home Depot and Lowes at some locations. A good electrical supply house should have one too. If you are connecting your jetter - pressure washer to a regular receptacle on the generator I can see where it would trip the breaker.
                Last edited by Woussko; 09-03-2007, 02:06 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

                  Thank you all for the help. Since my first post I have been to the hardware store (hardware store - not Home Depot or Lowes) and bought all sorts of different plug ends to try each of the various recepticles on my generator and no matter which I used, the same thing happened. Not until I made a cord with a regular 3-prong on one end and a 20amp female on the other end and plugged it into my house current, did it work. With the amprobe attached, I watched the amperage readings during all different tests I performed -- with pulse, without, maximum pressure, minimum pressure, etc. The highest amperage was at maximum pressure with maximum pulse. This amperage was 17.6 at 1,750psi. I did everything I could to top that number, but to no avail.

                  I noticed when I was trying to use the generator that the cord would get warm. I know that's not right! When I was using my house current, the cord didn't heat-up at all.

                  Now......What could be the problem with my generator?

                  Again....Thank you all very much. And thank you gear junkie for offering the one-on-one phone support. If I had been paying attention to my messages, I certainly would have called you.

                  Bruce

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

                    Bruce

                    Try measuring output Voltage of your generator first with no load and then with various loads. Also does the engine really grunt when trying to start the KJ-1750 motor?

                    It looks like you sort of made up your own line splitter so just disregard the last part of my earlier post.
                    Last edited by Woussko; 09-03-2007, 02:25 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

                      Originally posted by Woussko View Post
                      Bruce

                      What model Yamaha generator are you using? Some have a 30 Amp 125 Volt (rated) twist lock receptacle. It may have a 30 Amp breaker. If it does you can make up a special short length extension cord which has the correct plug on one end.

                      The KJ-1750 has a real 2 HP motor and they demand lots of starting current. I can see where it would trip a 20 Amp breaker on a 120 Volt circuit easy and especially if there was any back pressure when starting.

                      Rick has a good idea of using an engine powered pressure washer for jetting.

                      Please don't go taking your generator panel apart. Get the line splitter as pictured in the post by BHD. I've seen such in the electrical department of Home Depot and Lowes at some locations. A good electrical supply house should have one too. If you are connecting your jetter - pressure washer to a regular receptacle on the generator I can see where it would trip the breaker.
                      My generator is the YG5200D and it does have the outlet you are talking about. I did exactly what you suggested and it didn't throw the breaker on the generator, but the generator bogged-down, working itself to death and then the thermal safety on the jetter motor would trip. This is when the cord would get hot. The same would happen in the 20amp twist lock outlet. I should have mentioned that in my last post.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

                        Originally posted by Woussko View Post
                        Bruce

                        Try measuring output Voltage of your generator first with no load and then with various loads. Also does the engine really grunt when trying to start the KJ-1750 motor?
                        Hey....You're a pretty smart guy! It is kind of spooky how you know eaxctly what's happening before I even mention it. What's your pick for the next big lottery?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

                          Sorry but I don't do the lottery. Maybe you could try the model numbers for your generator, pressure washer - jetter and some other tools.

                          Do you have any portable electric heaters around? If yes, they make good test loads for testing portable generators. Do watch out for overloading.

                          Remember to always be careful and think SAFETY.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

                            [quote=Woussko;91619]Bruce

                            does the engine really grunt when trying to start the KJ-1750 motor?quote]
                            Woussko, the engine does really grunt and struggle. What does this tell you?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: KJ-1750 Amperage/Load Question

                              you could consider this: re wire your jetter motor to run on 220, and then use the 220 on the generator, it would help a little, as your pulling half of the amps as on the 110 configuration,

                              if the generator may lug less as it is using the full set of windings section of the generator, IT WILL still lug down as it loading the generaror fairly heavily, regardless it will be easier on both the generator and the jetter,

                              the problem is that unless you make some adaptor plugs for a dryer or electric range receptacles, few houses have any 220 volt outlets and you would then be forced to use the generator more,
                              but the 220 is a lot easier on extension cords as well as less amps = less voltage drop,

                              I ran my insulation blower on 220 volt and would have to do similar, or wire in a temporary 220 volt receptacle in to the panel of the house, had to do similar for one of my first Air compressors when I blew on dry wall texture.

                              I had a electric high pressure washer for a time, and then bought a gas powered unit, I would not recommend a electric for most high pressure washers, for most situations.

                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                              and as stated I would check the voltage on the generator. most voltage regulators on generators are internal electronic units now and very little adjustment to them if any, and if it is not producing the correct voltage then the first thing I would check out is the diodes and for broken or loose wires. (this would need the manual and to disassemble the generator to get access to them), and if they were OK and probly then need to replace the electronic module.
                              most new generators are of the brush-less design so brushes are not normally a problem any more.

                              and if the voltages are OK then I would check out the speed in which it is running and if it is producing the correct frequency, (a poor mans frequency meter), get a "old" plug in clock with a second hand, (with the little motor), and plug into the generator, and compare the time that is producing to a wrist or electronic clock, battery powered, and if the clock is running slow your generator is running to slow and if it is running fast it over speeding, (with out a load it should be slightly fast) 62 to 64 seconds or so to a minute, as the speed drupe of the governor will usly be in the 5 to 10% range, in other words the generator will slow under load some,

                              of not producing the correct frequency the governor would need to be adjusted, (follow the manual for the engine for this procedure if it is needed, if done wrong the unit may hunt (vary in it speed trying to find the correct speed), or jsut not run the correct RPM.

                              if there is a no load Idle circuit it may need to be check out to see if it is running or working correctly,

                              or if you have a RPM gage/meter for single cylinder engine, the 2 pole generator should run at 3600 RPM and the 4 pole generator at 1800 RPM.
                              Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                              attributed to Samuel Johnson
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                              Comment

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