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  • Collapsed line from the bottom??

    Have a customer whose had repeated problems with a 4" line that supports a full bathroom. Always having a stoppage. I snaked and cameraed the line today and discovered at 33 ft chunks of cast iron sticking up. I talked to Greg about a solution and tried his method. Greg said to use a corkscrew head and try to catch the piece to retrieve it. Well, I was able to snag a piece but couldn't move it. Luckily I was able to unthread my snake off the piece. It almost looks like the line is broken from the bottom being pushed in, like a tree root or maybe a utility line underneath the pipe? Any thoughts on what it could be and a solution other than replacement? Customer doesn't have a lot of money.
    Buy cheap, buy twice.

  • #2
    Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

    Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
    Have a customer whose had repeated problems with a 4" line that supports a full bathroom. Always having a stoppage. I snaked and cameraed the line today and discovered at 33 ft chunks of cast iron sticking up. I talked to Greg about a solution and tried his method. Greg said to use a corkscrew head and try to catch the piece to retrieve it. Well, I was able to snag a piece but couldn't move it. Luckily I was able to unthread my snake off the piece. It almost looks like the line is broken from the bottom being pushed in, like a tree root or maybe a utility line underneath the pipe? Any thoughts on what it could be and a solution other than replacement? Customer doesn't have a lot of money.
    Pack your #S#H#I#T up and leave?kidding ben...

    robert will be home later..i 'll show him your post

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

      Hmmm, ben, sounds like the customer is going to need a repair if it is indeed broken from the bottom.

      There is no way to jet it out, due to the pipe being broke, and it won't help to remove the broken cast, as the water will wash away, but the solids will clump up in the area of the break.

      You were unable to remove the cast, I know you have a camera, put it right into the break, locate depth and dig

      How deep is it? How far is it? How long is the break? If it isn't broke, but the object cannot be removed, you will still need to dig it up and pull that section out and replace or remove object and re-install section.

      Cannot make a trenchless line repair with a liner because there is a object blocking the sock from blowing through, if the line was broken, but clear, then the sock would open up

      1 bad spot is not worth a trenchless pull or pipe burst.

      Good luck ben.
      sigpic

      Robert

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

        Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
        How deep is it? How far is it? How long is the break?
        It's 33 ft from the toilet(no accessabile cleanout). I estimate the line is at least 6 ft deep as I don't have a locator. The break is from 33-36 ft. I was able to inspect past this section and reached the sewer main with the rest of the line looking good.
        Buy cheap, buy twice.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

          That was a pain while working in Chicago,deep lines.Is this a forced sewer?Not that it matters.If they want to save money ,they need someone to dig it up for them so you have access for your repair.It's labor intensive, the repair should be a snap!Cast-iron repair/snap pipe ,get it.Sunday morning humor

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

            I never snap old cast iron, usually it just crumbles or cracks up the line further.

            I perfer to use a diamond blade and grind the cast, nice clean cut.
            sigpic

            Robert

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

              Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
              Have a customer whose had repeated problems with a 4" line that supports a full bathroom. Always having a stoppage. I snaked and cameraed the line today and discovered at 33 ft chunks of cast iron sticking up. I talked to Greg about a solution and tried his method. Greg said to use a corkscrew head and try to catch the piece to retrieve it. Well, I was able to snag a piece but couldn't move it. Luckily I was able to unthread my snake off the piece. It almost looks like the line is broken from the bottom being pushed in, like a tree root or maybe a utility line underneath the pipe? Any thoughts on what it could be and a solution other than replacement? Customer doesn't have a lot of money.
              You sure it is cast iron?...sounds like Orangeburg pipe

              Some poor quality cast iron manufactured during the '40's and '50's would collapse when imbedded in areas with cinder in the soil.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

                Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                It's 33 ft from the toilet(no accessabile cleanout). I estimate the line is at least 6 ft deep as I don't have a locator. The break is from 33-36 ft. I was able to inspect past this section and reached the sewer main with the rest of the line looking good.
                Sounds like you gotta locate and repair.

                Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
                I never snap old cast iron, usually it just crumbles or cracks up the line further.
                Same here. I usually use a 14" Target Saw with an abrasive blade and cut through in one pass.

                Tracy
                sigpic.................I Love My Toto Bidet :twofinger2: :twofinger:

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

                  Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                  You sure it is cast iron?...sounds like Orangeburg pipe

                  Some poor quality cast iron manufactured during the '40's and '50's would collapse when imbedded in areas with cinder in the soil.
                  I'm pretty sure it's cast. I pulled a small chunk out and looks like cast iron. Never dealt with orangeburg. What's the difference?
                  Buy cheap, buy twice.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

                    The Orangeburg is similar to tar paper rolled up. Very notorious for collapsing.

                    Here, it was only used outside the building for a main line to the sewer lateral. It's usually caulk jointed into a service weight wye & eight bend.

                    Tracy
                    Last edited by yasudaplumbing; 11-18-2007, 06:11 PM.
                    sigpic.................I Love My Toto Bidet :twofinger2: :twofinger:

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

                      The generic name for this type of pipe is bituminous fiber pipe, the pipe is made of a combination of cellulose and asbestos fibers impregnated with a bituminous coal tar, compound, bituminous fiber pipe was manufactured with either a homogenous wall or a multiple-ply laminated wall, the ends of the pipe were tapered and fitted together using a butt joint

                      Total crap way of doing it.


                      sigpic

                      Robert

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

                        This is where My 14"Hilti gas concrete saw shines. I take out the concrete blade and install a
                        fiber metal blade. Cuts all the way through ,no problem.

                        On The repair , Why would You hesitate to dig, cut,install C.I. with banded couplings?
                        It's The right thing to do! Less than a plasma tv!
                        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

                          ..yep..i agree that it is time to replace the pipe..2 years ago i said that i would stop making "miricals" on these 'broken-lines' and just replace them...that is the proper and professional way to do it.....you will be surprised how often these 'broke' customers magically come up with the money for the repair......they usually come up with it or move out(~:


                          lonestar

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

                            Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
                            I never snap old cast iron, usually it just crumbles or cracks up the line further.

                            I perfer to use a diamond blade and grind the cast, nice clean cut.
                            If it's not good enough to snap then I personally would not tie on to it.I would keep looking for a section with more integrity.No question about it!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Collapsed line from the bottom??

                              Originally posted by apf View Post
                              If it's not good enough to snap then I personally would not tie on to it.I would keep looking for a section with more integrity.No question about it!


                              well I would like to get a full sewer replacement for cast that is too old or soft to snap, but in the real world, that doesn't happen all the time.

                              Usually the cast still has life, it is just to soft or old to squash a snap on it, just because it won't snap doesn't mean it all needs to be replaced.
                              sigpic

                              Robert

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