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  • Roots JEtting and some other ??

    Keep reading about roots...what mechines will handle them and such.

    My ??? is if u snip off the roots wont they just grow back like pruning a tree?? Would replaceing the serwer line not be a better way to handle roots in a system?

    Jetting? We have a jetter...its an option for the customer. I was told snake, then jet. Can NOT jet without snakeing line first.

    But some of the post Ive read here talk about useing the jetter instead of snakeing. soo now Im all confused.

    What is advantages/disadvantegs of snakeing alone vs jetting alone? or snakeing and jetting vs just jetting? When do u recomend jetting to a customer...from my very limited view we seem to recomend it more for restuants with a grease problem.

    Other night condo stack onces we got it apart to clean it out with a snake was filled with rust. Think this was the vent stack...but plumer called it just the stack....was a 3" cast iron pipe....for part of building then 4"... in any case I asked plumer about selling custumer jetting of the stack...8 stories hight condo...plumer kind of blew me off so figured it was a stupid ?? but Im courious why not jet out a stack?

    Anything else u think might melp me out..

    Thanks all.

  • #2
    Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??

    Originally posted by Evil Gopher View Post
    Keep reading about roots...what mechines will handle them and such.

    My ??? is if u snip off the roots wont they just grow back like pruning a tree?? Would replaceing the serwer line not be a better way to handle roots in a system?

    Jetting? We have a jetter...its an option for the customer. I was told snake, then jet. Can NOT jet without snakeing line first.

    But some of the post Ive read here talk about useing the jetter instead of snakeing. soo now Im all confused.

    What is advantages/disadvantegs of snakeing alone vs jetting alone? or snakeing and jetting vs just jetting? When do u recomend jetting to a customer...from my very limited view we seem to recomend it more for restuants with a grease problem.

    Other night condo stack onces we got it apart to clean it out with a snake was filled with rust. Think this was the vent stack...but plumer called it just the stack....was a 3" cast iron pipe....for part of building then 4"... in any case I asked plumer about selling custumer jetting of the stack...8 stories hight condo...customer kind of blew me off so figured it was a stupid ?? but Im courious why not jet out a stack?

    Anything else u think might melp me out..

    Thanks all.
    Good question, this should be a great thread. Yes the roots are going to grow back. Once you have tree roots, your pretty much always going to have tree roots. The true way to get rid of roots is to replace the pipe. Once you have the opening to where the roots entered they system, thats where they will grow back..Depends on how severe the roots are, whats in the area...Average i see is 6months to 2yrs.


    If i have a repeat customer, that i did a root elimination to previously, i will cable the line and rootx the line.

    If i have a 1st time customer, with a 1st time clog, then i will snake the line, if i pull out tree roots, that is when i recommend a root elminination, or to at least camera the line.

    My root elimination is Water jetting the line with a Warthog nozzle, with the camera in the line, go to each joint and cut out the roots. The warthog will remove 100% of the roots, and will obviously do a much better job then the cable. Once all the roots are gone from the joints, i will Root X the pipe. Then i put them on a once a year cable and root x plan.

    Dont get me wrong, i tell every customer that i encounter roots with that they should replace the line, Most either do not want to, and are happy to have me do root elimination, then a yearly PM....some just dont have the money to replace.

    I think the topic, Cable or Jetter for roots.....You do have to cable some lines with roots 1st to make a hole for the Warthog nozzle to get into the roots at the joint to work effectively. I do know from experience that the Jetter with the Warthog will remove roots faster, and better then a cable...

    Sectional machines do a good job, K-60, or Electric Eel innercore cable will do a great job, but still does not remove 100% of the roots most of the time. Im sure guys have different methods and theories on root removal...This is how i do it and it has not failed me in the 13yrs ive been doing this

    Greg
    Last edited by Drain Medic; 01-06-2008, 09:42 PM.
    The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

    www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??

      Dm dont want to talk price...and Im shakey on our companies flat rate plumer priceing.....also thinking residential not realy commercial....sooo 50 - 75ft of drain line.....we charge for snake, jetting, camra. breathing, me fetching coffee and so on.....seems like cost of snake, jetting, camra, would almost me same as replaceign sewer line....but might be way way off on prices. I guess its also diffrent since in central florida no frost line...soo pipes only a foot or so below the grass. Other day we repaired a water line in a new houseing area sooo close to surface that an edger broke it talking under 3" ....soo diging up a drain line is not a major thing....like up north.

      The snake vs jetting ?? was also not jut ment for roots...also cloges of any type....I once asked why not just jet a clog (not roots) and was told had to snake first then jet...but seen a few post were people ahve all but abondoned the snake for jetting out clogs. and got confused.
      Last edited by Evil Gopher; 01-06-2008, 09:52 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??

        Originally posted by Evil Gopher View Post
        Dm dont want to talk price...and Im shakey on our companies flat rate plumer priceing.....also thinking residential not realy commercial....sooo 50 - 75ft of drain line.....we charge for snake, jetting, camra. breathing, me fetching coffee and so on.....seems like cost of snake, jetting, camra, would almost me same as replaceign sewer line....but might be way way off on prices.

        The snake vs jetting ?? was also not jut ment for roots...also cloges of any type....I once asked why not just jet a clog (not roots) and was told had to snake first then jet...but seen a few post were people ahve all but abondoned the snake for jetting out clogs. and got confused.
        My price to do root elimination would still be under $1000 with the cable involved, would still be under 900 too
        Cable vs. Jetting

        IMO you have to cable most before you jet. If the line is not clogged just running slow, i will most certainly jet 1st. Jetting alot better on Muck jobs, grease jobs, scale jobs, when its not compacted and hardend. If i get a call for a resturant that i have no history with, i will cable the line. Then after jet the line. Usually price is not a problem, cause im honest with the people, they put their trust in me, i do a great job, they get a hefty warranty, and everyone is happy.

        Alot of times it depends on the customer too. You can pretty much tell the customers that just want you in and out without paying alot of money, or you have the customer that wants it working, and they dont care what you have to do.

        Cable advantages. Roof jobs for one.....Ill take the K60 or the Spartan 100 on the roof to do a kitchen or main block before i would jet it...dont want black water overflowing out of the sink...maybe after i clear it if its that greasy..
        Removing objects. I would use a retriever on the cable and would not jet it...

        Most importantly it depends on the block, the history of the line, the application, the access.

        I personally see Water Jetting as the future. I could be wrong, but just judging by experience again

        Greg
        Last edited by Drain Medic; 01-06-2008, 10:01 PM.
        The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

        www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??

          Just something to add as Greg nailed most of it. Snakes have been around for a long time and plumbers are used to them. Effective jetters have a been around a lot less time so there's still a stigma about them. I think they will become the majority when it comes to drain cleaning.
          Buy cheap, buy twice.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??

            How can you warranty a drain line??If you can't control whats put in it??Gofer do you go eat those famous rock shrimp?I can't remember the name of that resturant....

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??

              Very easily...After i camera line after cleaning...as long as there are no defects in pipe, meaning off sets, sags etc. then i will give them a hefty warranty, with the the words big and bold IF NOT ABUSED

              If the line is abused, then warranty is voided out...abuse being, tampons, paper towels, baby wipes, grease etc.

              Greg
              The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

              www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??

                If the clog was caused by the homeowner's actions, I won't giv a warranty. But if their line stoppage was caused by time(grease in a kitchen sink, laundry) or roots, I'll give a warranty because I know the pipe is cleaned.
                Buy cheap, buy twice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??

                  Originally posted by CAROLINA PLUMBER View Post
                  How can you warranty a drain line??If you can't control whats put in it??Gofer do you go eat those famous rock shrimp?I can't remember the name of that resturant....
                  Dixie cross roads up in Titusvile..20 miles north of me..near Space Center visitors complex entrance...go up a few times a year...usaly long long long wait times. Super nice food.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??

                    I give a 90 day warranty on "Roots Only" anything else is on the home owner.
                    Last edited by All Clear Sewer; 01-08-2008, 07:39 PM.
                    http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??


                      GOPHER;
                      to answer your ? ? ?'s about the multi-story building, let me say what happaned on one job i did a few years ago,

                      got a call from supv. about job 1 tech. had walked off already becausr of h/o "attude"
                      to plumber,
                      main line blockadge in single story house
                      i knew it was going too be bad job, but decided
                      to give my best anyway,
                      i got to the job, back up plumber was to meet me was hung up on other job, ie; this was a middle of night call ! !
                      so i decided to take care of the job my self, could not run though roof vent by myself
                      but hey i had a 40,000 psi. trailer jetter on the back of my truck,
                      so i pulled out enough hose to reach back to side of house up ladder and ran down the main vent stack out as far as i could push it
                      started up jetter and cranked it up to about
                      2,000 psi. shut down, check inside still blocked up went back and cranked up too 4,000 psi. held for a count of 15 or 20,
                      went back inside the house,
                      the line was now opened, but the BATHROOM
                      WAS A NASTY SHADE OF BROWN ALL OVER ! !
                      it came out of the toilet, bathtub, & lav sink,
                      so you don't want to imang what that would do
                      to a multi-story building ! !

                      O. K. RICK YOU ALL GET A BIG LAUGH AT ME ! !

                      P.S. this homeowner was a city building inspector in a town my co. did work in,

                      JERRYMAC
                      JERRYMAC
                      E-MAILJERRYMAC777@GMAIL.COM
                      CALIF. LIC. PLBG,HEAT,DRAINS,ELECTRIC,WATER HEATER, BOILER, POOL AND SPA HEATER
                      FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
                      SINCE JAN. 1989

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                      • #12
                        Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??

                        P.S. this homeowner was a city building inspector in a town my co. did work in,

                        Oh I bet getting a permit after that was sooooooo much fun!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??

                          Well...I have a little box on the right side of my invoices that says"Because we have no control of what is put into a drain after our service,our warranty/guarentee is limited to "working at time of service" they must sign box,along w/ a few other places. So I guess I am a mean plumber or something!! I would not do somebody wrong though (especially a repeat customer) but..... I keep getting those same customers calling back for those rooter calls and plumbing calls year after year and recommending me to others.So I have read where guys give a warranty and thats nice but I don't see that it's ever needed to get them to call me back? I guess In my mind it opens up a can of worms.Some people fix on a few words like "warranty" and forget the rest of the common cence equation.Then want to argue about it"You said you would give me a warranty on this line, You didn't say I couldn't flush my panty plugs!...you crook!!" LoL. So basically you got smart common cense people and.....oxygen thiefs.So I avoid that word "Guarentee"unless necessary. My invoices are written for a judge to read if necessary>>>> I am eluding btw to the back of my invoices..that state "terms and conditions","contract provisions","limited warranty","responsibilities of the customers""promise to pay",customers property" anyway..basically they sign/agree that I AM LIABLE FOR NOTHING.and YOU AGREE TO PAY ME. WOW,It sounds like I have been to court before

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??

                            Originally posted by CAROLINA PLUMBER View Post
                            Well...I have a little box on the right side of my invoices that says"Because we have no control of what is put into a drain after our service,our warranty/guarentee is limited to "working at time of service" they must sign box,along w/ a few other places. So I guess I am a mean plumber or something!! I would not do somebody wrong though (especially a repeat customer) but..... I keep getting those same customers calling back for those rooter calls and plumbing calls year after year and recommending me to others.So I have read where guys give a warranty and thats nice but I don't see that it's ever needed to get them to call me back? I guess In my mind it opens up a can of worms.Some people fix on a few words like "warranty" and forget the rest of the common cence equation.Then want to argue about it"You said you would give me a warranty on this line, You didn't say I couldn't flush my panty plugs!...you crook!!" LoL. So basically you got smart common cense people and.....oxygen thiefs.So I avoid that word "Guarentee"unless necessary. My invoices are written for a judge to read if necessary>>>> I am eluding btw to the back of my invoices..that state "terms and conditions","contract provisions","limited warranty","responsibilities of the customers""promise to pay",customers property" anyway..basically they sign/agree that I AM LIABLE FOR NOTHING.and YOU AGREE TO PAY ME. WOW,It sounds like I have been to court before

                            Big difference btwn Warranty and Guarantee..If you warranty it, your saying its working and that it will work. When you guarantee it, your pretty much saying that it will never back up again. I use warranties and offer long warranties after the line has been video inspected. Has nothing to do with weather or not i want them to call back, but offers protection for the customer, and a piece of mind. Now mind you i have T&C on the back of my invoices, and make every customer read them before i even start the work, sign on the price and that they have read the T&C. If i dont camera the line and just cable it, as long as i dont pull out roots or grease, i will warranty the line for 30 days, again with the words IF NOT ABUSED!. If it backs up after i videod the line and i know that the does not have defects, breaks etc., and i do not pull anything out, i will honor the warranty, but if its tampons, baby wipes, paper towels, then its not covered under the warranty, and the customer already knows that. Knock on wood i have never had a problem with a line backing up while under warranty. I have had clogs come in after warranty has expired, and the customer ask questions, but usually we will come to an agreement, and i will give them a discount. In my mind warranty or not, you want to make the customer happy, but dont cheat yourself either, i mean without the customers, i have no job
                            Last edited by Drain Medic; 01-08-2008, 11:27 PM.
                            The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

                            www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Roots JEtting and some other ??

                              I've been asked about my warranty. I tell them their only warranty is my concience, which is better than anything any lawyer ever wrote.
                              This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

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