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snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

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  • snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

    In general, houses around here (DFW) within the last, say, fifteen years have a double cleanout in the front yard between the house and the main. IPC says a cleanout is only legit if it allows you to go downstream--thus there's no such thing actually as a "double cleanout." (IPC allows pulling a toilet to count as a cleanout.)

    Question: if stoppage is under house, will you run the snake upstream from the front yard "double" cleanout? I have many times, but probably shouldn't. Recently came up under a toilet. Should probably insist on roof, or attic, or pull toilet from now on.

  • #2
    Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

    i've been against this practice for ever without having a video with an accurate footage of how far in reverse i can go without fear of a tee/ wye, or dead end.

    it's like driving the wrong way on the freeway. sometimes you go head on to an oncoming car.

    without a track record or a video, i would be very cautious going upstream.

    infact i spray 2 way cleanouts with red paint to warn my buddies plumbers to look before running into a c/o.

    if i install a reverse c/o, it's always with 2 risers and the footage clearly marked on the caps.

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

      Originally posted by buyfield View Post
      In general, houses around here (DFW) within the last, say, fifteen years have a double cleanout in the front yard between the house and the main. IPC says a cleanout is only legit if it allows you to go downstream--thus there's no such thing actually as a "double cleanout." (IPC allows pulling a toilet to count as a cleanout.)

      Question: if stoppage is under house, will you run the snake upstream from the front yard "double" cleanout? I have many times, but probably shouldn't. Recently came up under a toilet. Should probably insist on roof, or attic, or pull toilet from now on.


      I will run the snake from the outside going upstream almost everytime i do a job. We have Curb traps, Tees, and double c/os around here. Proper diagnosing should help you avoid any of those problems (coming up toilets, wyes and what not).

      Obviously we are talking slab and not basement here. I try to avoid pulling toilets, going from roof and or attic at all cost. Much more dangerous, more time consuming, and if im going to get a snake stuck, i would rather it be stuck from the outside, not from inside, or the roof.

      I have never (knock on wood) come up a toilet from the outside. I have come up rainleaders. I would think its all in the diagnosing.

      Everyone is different how they do these lines. Do what works for you.
      The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

      www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

        I will run the camera first before I do this so I can see how far the stoppage is and will use the camera in conjuction with the snake to make sure I'm at the stoppage. This is also good for my area because the first fitting you often come to when going upstream is a wye 1/8 bend with a cleanout on the upsteam run but you actually need to go in the branch. I'll just bend the cable and manually rotate it and push it into the branch and go from there. You'll love a sectional for this because you know exactly how far you're in the pipe and will be able to feel the stoppage much better.
        Buy cheap, buy twice.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

          Rick, you're probably one in a million (marking footage). Probably what I need to hear.

          Drain Medic, not sure I follow you on proper diagnosing--I walk through house and notice layout of baths, but wouldn't be able to know if branch or main runs out of wye. (Although I'm starting to feel inferior.) You're right about the best place to be when it all goes to pot is on solid ground.

          Ben: wow. My inferiority complex is growing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

            What i mean is, if you have 2 bathrooms in the house, one on each side, and only 1 bathroom is backing up, then you pretty much know that the clog is in that branch line. If both toilets are backing up , then i know its in the main and will be blocked before the 2 tie in together. So if there is an outside c/o then i know if both are backed up, i should be able to figure out the footage i need to run to clear the block before i hit the wye.

            I will just pull the toilet if one toilet is clogged. Now here is the catch. If your dealing with a muck clog...where your snaking all day and seems nothing is working for you, your just going right thru the clog, then that could be dangerous, but knowing that it is at least 60ft from the c/o to the middle of the living room, back of the house etc, then that is where i would stop and bring in the jetter.

            I agree with Rick, and Ben on videoing the line, but again, time consuming. I would definitely camera the line afterwards to find the connecting point to mark a spot where a cleanout could be installed either on the branch line, or right before the wye connection to avoid future problems. But i will only do that if it is an ongoing problem (mention c/o installation).

            I just hate roofs, and do not like working inside, but sometimes there is no other option
            The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

            www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

              Must be nice to have all those outside clean outs. 99.9% of ours are inside or worse, in a crawl space.
              INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
              Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

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              • #8
                Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

                Gene, 90% of my work is in the city of Philadelphia. every house in Phila (unless covered over with concrete) has a curb trap or cleanout. Suburbs i would say 75% have a cleanout or trap..Very rarely do i have to pull a toilet or go from the roof.
                The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

                www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

                  I don't have to pull toilets very often and rarely do I go to the roof. Most c/o's here are in the basement but that entails having to carry all our equipment through the kitchen and living room to get to the basement all the while trying not to make a mess. Tarps and booties. Being inside we have to be conscious of our surroundings while we're working, oil lines, rusted galvanized water main(the more rusted the closer to the c/o it is) electric panels, all the stuff they have stored down there etc..and thats just the unfinished basements. Outside c/o's must be awesome.

                  On a side note: Booties are the BEST investment I have made so far. I have had so many customers thank us and comment on our using them. Like showing us the stain on the carpet from the "F***ing" cable guy.
                  INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
                  Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

                    Originally posted by Gene Bickford View Post
                    I don't have to pull toilets very often and rarely do I go to the roof. Most c/o's here are in the basement but that entails having to carry all our equipment through the kitchen and living room to get to the basement all the while trying not to make a mess. Tarps and booties. Being inside we have to be conscious of our surroundings while we're working, oil lines, rusted galvanized water main(the more rusted the closer to the c/o it is) electric panels, all the stuff they have stored down there etc..and thats just the unfinished basements. Outside c/o's must be awesome.

                    On a side note: Booties are the BEST investment I have made so far. I have had so many customers thank us and comment on our using them. Like showing us the stain on the carpet from the "F***ing" cable guy.
                    Booties and mats, absolutely. Wear them on every job, use the mats on every job. Customers love it. I even had one guy tell me, oh is that a new government law lol. I use Shoebee booties, the mats i rent off a company. They pick them up when i call them, and give me new ones. Best thing ever
                    The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

                    www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

                      What do you pay for the mats? Thats a good idea. Much better then tripping over tarps and again, it adds that extra touch that the customer appreciates. Of course they appreciate their drains working when you leave but it's the little things that get the extra points like booties, spraying every thing you touched with disinfectant spray etc..
                      INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
                      Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

                        I get an outside cleanout only maybe 40% of the time. I usually go through the roof. Pulling a toilet is the last option for me. In case of a 2 story house, the priorities get reversed; roof last, toilet first.

                        Every house here does have a city cleanout but they're all 6-10' deep and a wye 1/8 bend so going in reverse is next to impossible. I'm coming up with an invention that will allow me to run a 7/8 cable or camera backwards through this cleanout. It's in the works right now. The majority of all mainline problems we have are where the city cleanout conects to lateral.
                        Last edited by gear junkie; 01-28-2008, 12:58 PM.
                        Buy cheap, buy twice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

                          Originally posted by Gene Bickford View Post
                          What do you pay for the mats? Thats a good idea. Much better then tripping over tarps and again, it adds that extra touch that the customer appreciates. Of course they appreciate their drains working when you leave but it's the little things that get the extra points like booties, spraying every thing you touched with disinfectant spray etc..

                          I use a company local around here. You can try Cintas, i know they rent mats too. I pay 35 bucks for 5 mats
                          The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

                          www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

                            Sounds like consensus is going upstream is better than roof or pulling toilet. And that since I don't have a camera (or a jetter), I'm facing an uphill battle. No pun intended.

                            For it to get all mucked up, the kind that the snake goes right through but won't clear, does that require a belly? Always wondered.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: snaking against the flow from "double cleanout"

                              I've always referred to it as soft pack (must be a Maine thing). Could be caused by a belly, roots offset or whatever. I find I run into it more in a home with only 1-2 older people that don't use the water much. After a while the pipe almost acts like a septic tank. You go through with an arrow head or small head and poke a little hole. Water goes down a bit but as soon as you pull the snake out the soft pack (sludge) just collapses back onto itself.
                              INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
                              Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

                              Comment

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