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  • #46
    Re: Drain Equipment

    the open wind cable serves a couple of purposes.

    #1 it is more flexible than a tight wind. try storing a 3/4'' inner core inside of the 7/8'' carrying cage.

    #2 it cleans much better than a tight wind.

    the cutter is for cutting. but the open wind cable acts a continuous auger and will help to clean the line of roots, grease, lint, dirt.

    when i used drums, the cables would typically come back fairly clean. sure i would tangle some roots on the tight wind. but with sectionals, i bring back much more roots, baby wipes.


    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Drain Equipment

      Rick, am I hearing you to say that Ridgid knows open wind is better, but that the drum machine has to settle for innercore? (Because open wind would get meshed together in the drum? Because . . . ?)

      Which is to say, drum machines are a compromise: don't clean as well, but . . . (easier to use). ???

      Just talked to Ben: he mentioned another advantage of open wind: I had to snake through a 4" lead bend yesterday. Open wind probably easier on it.

      And an advantage of the K60 is that it's going to stall before it ruins a cable. I wasn't used to that, having always run universal motors, but have had my K60 stall a couple of times. Whereas perhaps a 1500 running 7/8 might more likely ruin cable.

      Rick: I'll try to give a full review of the 60 ASAP.

      Tim

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      • #48
        Re: Drain Equipment

        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
        hey drum guys, are you listening

        what's the score between drum sales and sectional sales

        if i had a dime for every k-60

        once you get it, ask questions. there are plenty of guys here that know the sectional tricks. get good and proficient and come out to the roundup.

        lets kick some drum butt

        rick.
        It's been a while since I've talked sewer.........
        My Dad was a career Roto-Rooter man and used those
        assemble on site machines and they worked fine
        but left an awful mess.
        I worked for Roto-Rooter myself for a period of time
        with the same machines. But............................

        After working for another service that provided the Spartan drums
        I wouldn't use anything but a drum machine.
        I think they're much more efficient and no doubt cleaner for the
        customers home, which means you're not wiping sewer water
        off everything in the work area. Just my opinion.
        My brother and I are starting a drain service in eastern Wis.
        and we're going drum style all the way.
        To me the only real good applications for the "cage" as I call it,
        are boiler rooms and commercial parking garages.
        There's too many places where you have to keep it tidy.
        Last edited by simplicity; 03-05-2008, 12:10 AM.

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        • #49
          Re: Drain Equipment

          Originally posted by simplicity View Post
          It's been a while since I've talked sewer.........
          My Dad was a career Roto-Rooter man and used those
          assemble on site machines and they worked fine
          but left an awful mess.
          I worked for Roto-Rooter myself for a period of time
          with the same machines. But............................

          After working for another service that provided the Spartan drums
          I wouldn't use anything but a drum machine.
          I think they're much more efficient and no doubt cleaner for the
          customers home, which means you're not wiping sewer water
          off everything in the work area. Just my opinion.
          Sectionals are not that messy, and a good canvas dropcloth elimintes the problem.
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          • #50
            Re: Drain Equipment

            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
            hey drum guys, are you listening

            what's the score between drum sales and sectional sales

            if i had a dime for every k-60

            once you get it, ask questions. there are plenty of guys here that know the sectional tricks. get good and proficient and come out to the roundup.

            lets kick some drum butt

            rick.
            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
            not sure about the best bang for the buck, as a k-60 with 5/8'' and 7/8'' cable will run you in the area of $1700-1800.

            while a k3800 (commercial)will run around $1100. a k380 is an older machine and has been replaced by the k400 (homeowner), $400-500. the problem is a drum is ruff to take on a roof and the 3800/400 will run a 1/2'' cable max. 1/2'' is not very good for 4'' especially if you do encounter roots like most of us do.

            i can write a book on the advantages of a sectional, k-60. i guess if you read back some, i've already done that

            there is no doubt that if there is only 1 machine i could carry on my truck, it would be a k-60 without a doubt. with the selection of cables and cutters, you will have no problem doing lines from 1.5''- 6'' with and without roots. from inside a house/ building to outside to roof/ basement. there is not a place you can't take this little machine.

            don't trust me, read what others have said

            rick.
            while a k3800 (commercial)will run around $1100. a k380 is an older machine and has been replaced by the k400 (homeowner), $400-500. the problem is a drum is ruff to take on a roof and the 3800/400 will run a 1/2'' cable max. 1/2'' is not very good for 4'' especially if you do encounter roots like most of us do.

            Are you trying tell us you're pulling roots through the roof?

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Drain Equipment

              [quote=simplicity;125921].

              Are you trying tell us you're pulling roots through the roof?[/quote]

              are you doubting my statement

              do a little reading and look at some of the prior photos i've taken.

              then if you have questions, i'll be glad to answer them.

              unlike roto rooter, i do go on roofs and i do get the job done. all by myself. most of the guys here are 1 man shows. we all have our tricks and our favorite machines. mine and some others happen to be a k-60.
              don't knock it till you try it.

              rick.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Drain Equipment

                I'm not doubting your ability.
                I've just never seen roots come through a roof vent.
                Just crious?(yes I'm being a wise ***)
                Unless of course you've actually done it.
                Would be a new one to me!
                I haven't completely figured out the web site
                navigation but I'm working on it.
                Look for my posts as we'll have lots of fun
                talking S++T!
                I started a new thread. Would like to hear your input
                on "so....I commited to a new buisness"

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Drain Equipment

                  Originally posted by buyfield View Post
                  I've been running k60 for three or four weeks now, thanks to this forum. Got it because (1)easier to load, (2) prefer roofs to pulling toilets, most of the time, and (3) based on rave reviews here, wanted to give it a ($2000) try.

                  3800 has been my roof machine, but cannot exceed 90'. Also, 90' of 1/2 is harder to get on roof than K60.

                  Will keep using 7500 for now. If I decide I really love the k60, I will get a 1500.

                  So how do I like the K60 so far?

                  Have used in garage, but not bathroom so far. Ironically, takes more room than the 7500 because the I keep the cable reel up at the front of the machine. Not smart enough to figure out another system yet. Even in front yards, cleanouts often crowded with landscaping--the k60 requires a little more back strain than I had envisioned (having to put the reel in less than ideal place). But of course the plumbing code requires clearance around cleanout, so that's not the 60's fault.

                  So, it does take more room.

                  Secondly, the handle/lever doesn't spring back quite as automatically as I would like, but maybe I'm not doing something quite right.

                  Thirdly, and this is my main concern with the 60, but I'm sure it's undue, or else Rick and others wouldn't like it so much: the open wind cable, especially the 7/8, "threads itself" into the sewer, especially if there are 90s, and the moreso the further down stream said 90s are--and so while it goes in pretty easy, the trip back out is quite a bit harder, and nerve racking. With my inner core cable, I can usually just drag all 100' back out without spinning the drum at all--it doesn't catch on edges. Not that I drag all 100' out without spinning the drum, but I'm more at ease about going another 20' or 30', especially when I think I'm entering the city main, when I can tug back on the cable every few feet to verify than I'm still okay. Once the 7/8 open wind gets in a good ways, no more tugging--it's threaded in, and it's going to have to be threaded back out.

                  Which has nothing (?) to do with the k60 perhaps, but only the cable type, but Ridgid only lists open wind with the sectionals, and not inner core.

                  It's probably not a concern to anyone else in this forum, which is fine, but that's the part about the K60 that gives me some pause. I don't mind that the cable is in sections. I don't mind the setup. I don't mind having a hose handy to keep the cable from overheating. I don't mind getting my hands dirtier. But getting stuck--that's the part that gets my attention. I've never had to retrieve a broken cable, but if it's not just broke, but caught on something, I'm not sure how a retrieving auger is going to get it unstuck, and I'm not sure how digging up the street or the driveway is going to be cheap.

                  I don't doubt that open wind cleans better, or that sectionals provide better feel and control. They are definitely easier to load and get on roofs, and to know how far you're in. But I'll sacrifice all of that to not get stuck. Inner core may not go in as easy as open wind, but it does seem to come out easier.

                  On straight runs with wye branch cleanout fittings, the 7/8 open wind does great. But when the second rate plumber uses 90s instead of 45s, and cost-saving cleanout fittings, suddenly better cleaning is not my problem. But getting my cable back out is.

                  I get my auger heads caught in cast iron several times a month. Very stressful. In fact, I'm constantly debating spear head, or auger head. spear head, or auger head. Spear head can't make the turn, and get in a bind, but auger head wraps around something.

                  The 60 is all I carry for outside snaking since I've gotten it, and so far, 7500 is just resting back at the house. That's the main reason I bought the 60. So, it's doing well in that regard. I do think it cleans better.

                  It clears the drain, and it's easier to carry. It'll take a while to decide exactly how much I like it. At this very early stage, I still probably prefer foot pedals and inner core to hand levers and open wind. But transport--wow, the 60 is nice. No one need be offended--I'm brand new with it. I'll always have to have it for roofs, so if nothing else, I'm glad to have it for that.

                  I know this has been discussed elsewhere, but one other moderate concern is the ease with which the sectional cable can escape down into the sewer. I understand that you take steps to secure the cable (looping it into the riser, etc), but the point I tried to make elsewhere was that if in the process of securing it, you let go for one second, in many cases it will be gone. Not just on roofs, but even straight runs of plastic down at the yard cleanout. And I don't mean just sort of gone, but with that much weight, really gone. It's just a little harder to rest easy.

                  But regardless, I'm glad I'm trying it, and if it turns out I don't like the 60, no biggie.


                  I was busting out laughing reading this, had to go back and make a point of dragging this up because this is why I went to drums and never looked back.


                  What is with a hose keeping the cables cool....


                  and this issue with losing cables in drains.........non-existent with a drum; it's bolted back inside the drum on the larger cables.

                  That reversing the cable out of a drain is so simplistic on a drum, this mention above is something I wouldn't want to do for a living, every day working my upper body in this fashion.

                  Lots of guys won't even use the machine to even feed it into the drain; they'll just hand bang it and take it all the way up to the point it stops with the clog, clutch it so it spins and clears the drain and either sit in one spot or pull back.


                  What isn't mentioned is that when you clip all those cables together, you have to physically take them all back apart one by one every 15' because you have nothing to reel back into collecting that nasty cable you just cleared the line with.

                  I'm not buying that all clogs are clear water clogs; that's BS. Get a flat line sewer or one with a belly and that cable is horrendous black, old sewage. Sounds inviting but your first pass doesn't mean it opens on the first try.

                  NOW think about all those nasty cables you're putting back in those bike tires that are not only smelly and dirty, the homeowner is looking at you like your job is as dangerous as a window cleaner at the eiffle tower.


                  Sectionals above is one of the reasons why I never pursued a sewer camera; it's all a hand pushing ordeal, all of it. I watched a fellow one day push 40' with his camera and this guy basically told me "Do this 12 times a day and you are physically spent". Ouchies.


                  Okay I'm done on this thread for a bit.....I know the replies coming, I'm glad I got smarter than the machine in my age and do less physical work when it comes to rodding drains.


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                  • #54
                    Re: Drain Equipment

                    Originally posted by dirtydog View Post
                    Wow i see alot of you guys are still stuck on useing the drum machines to clean sewer lines out. What it takes you 1hr to 2 hrs to do a sewer. I use the cables and I use a 1/2 drill that i hook up to the cables. The cables are wrapped up in a regular car tire. It takes me 30 to 40 mins to do a sewer. By the time you roll down that heavy drum machine down the stairs i would have already finished the sewer. i can push out atleast 200 ft of cable with the 1/2 drill. If you like ask me and i will show you how to hook up this system its easy and cheap.



                    1 to 2 hours?



                    14 minutes, I timed myself just for you today, I just took pause in responding because I knew this main drain I was doing today was my last call, didn't want to be premature like ejaculate, ya know.


                    I one handed my machine from my lift gate on my truck down a sloping hill, put my bootie covers on and in I go to the cleanout right at the wall. Flooded the system till I got a 2-3' puddle going at the floor drain, foot on the switch and push 3" on my powerfeed and magic, the cable feeds itself into the drain, makes all turns of directions while I watch the cable, not touching it until I watch it start to rise up out of the drain.


                    As soon as it started to climb I put my hand on it and slightly pushed, the motor sounded different for about 3 seconds and out of the corner of my eye the water puddle 10' feet away has a hole in the center of it.....


                    drain is open and now I'm reeling my electric cord back up faster than you can read this response. We collect the "evidence" of what was a cheese cloth wipe rag the house cleaners thought was funny to throw down the drain. The homeowner is sending the company the bill for my time, rightfully so. We put the pieces that came off the end of the cable in a ziplock bag, nothing better than showing them the proof it's theirs.


                    I felt so damn guilty, I doubled out twice just so it didn't look like I was stealing candy from a baby. Lately I've been doing drain cleaning with one knee down and one up, the knee down I protect with a brand new roll of paper towels I didn't take out of the wrapper till I have to clean what is usually a super mininal mess from the cable only being 2-3' out of the machine into the drain. Running that cable, spinning while they flood the system after you get it open is nice because you don't even need to worry about mess;

                    draw the cable back into the drum, take it back to the truck and when you get home, unplug the drum and let it drain.


                    14 minutes, best $145 made and I carried a 2' aluminum pipe wrench, my cleated gloves, roll of paper towels and that machine. 1 trip down and one trip back, had a half hour involved and that was writing the bill and giving candy to the little son and daughter.


                    I'm timing my next ten for you, maybe video my but wigglin' when I walk to and from the drain.
                    Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 03-06-2008, 12:56 AM.
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                    • #55
                      Re: Drain Equipment

                      Dunbar, that was one of the best pro-drum stories I have heard. They certainly can be quick, the main detraction I have is their weight and lack of versatility. I am still on the fence, I created a poll!
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                      • #56
                        Re: Drain Equipment

                        what dunbar forgets to tell you is that he only takes the easy ones.

                        i take everything from simple to the impossible. the ones that others fail at. the ones that others don't want to do.

                        if all i did was the simple ones, who would do the tuff ones?

                        when it comes to the ridgid roundup, dunbar will be at ground level while i'll be going from the basement to the roof with my k-60.

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Drain Equipment

                          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                          what dunbar forgets to tell you is that he only takes the easy ones.

                          i take everything from simple to the impossible. the ones that others fail at. the ones that others don't want to do.

                          if all i did was the simple ones, who would do the tuff ones?

                          when it comes to the ridgid roundup, dunbar will be at ground level while i'll be going from the basement to the roof with my k-60.

                          rick.
                          Exactly, thats what I meant by "lack of versatility."
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                          • #58
                            Re: Drain Equipment

                            I've enjoyed reading all these posts on drum vs sectional as I have only used drum type machines (Spartans and Gorlitz') which for the most part were always up to the job. What it seems to boil down here is personal preference mostly based on one's own experience. I use a large and medium size Gorlitz when working for the school district. When I gear up to do drain cleaning for my own business I am seriously thinking Spartan 300 and 100. I used these machines working for another plumber 10 years ago and they worked everytime and quickly. I guess we all like to go with what we are comfortable with.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Drain Equipment

                              The Spartan 300 and 100 are great machines. Don't forget, both easily can be taken on the roof.

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                              • #60
                                Re: Drain Equipment

                                Amazing how threads get revived.

                                I would get RIDGID drums now as Spartan has been sold to a shark of a businessman in my opinion and now....I have been told by the rep that everything is going to be made in China soon if not already.

                                Ridgid's comparable product for comparable price with a Forum full of help.

                                J.C.

                                (EDIT: The last I read the business entity that owns Spartan has owned it for many years. But the rep did say their drum machines would be made in China. I could swear I saw some Made in China stickers on a 100 & 300 in his truck but I don't have pictures for proof.)
                                Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 02-04-2009, 12:12 PM.

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