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  • Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

    There's no point of starting a poll on this one because I don't think people will be honest, in print on this subject matter.




    I never hear of anyone EVER talking about using hydropressure, the standing water behind the clog as calculated leverage towards unclogging the drain.


    When you're called out to clear a drain, you should be instantly telling the customer to flood the system, meaning bringing the maximum level of water standing behind that clog without doing damage to the surroundings. Meaning, don't add water to the equation if you know it's going to destroy a carpet or items on the floor.

    Water is one of the most powerful tools when clearing a drain, it's the helping hand that offers flow-by when you DO start to pop that clog and get it rolling.


    DO YOU GO TO A RESTAURANT AND HAVE A FOUR COURSE MEAL, ORDER A SHOT GLASS FOR A BEVERAGE?

    Of course not.

    Water is the key ingredient to the equation of effectively clearing drains. You don't get a damn cookie for the most stuff retrieved out of the drain. Why touch the ****? Don't offer the logic that it should be out of the drain, not in it. IF you are truly attacking that drain correctly, you're going the full length, structure to main sewer. Once it makes it to the main sewer, it's someone else's problem, PERIOD. If it's a septic tank and you know it's something that can stay floating and jump the baffles, head to the distribution box and cause problems, better use your head and get what it is back.....but 9 times out of 10 you'll never get everything, especially tampons.

    That water standing in a closet bend, floor drain, kitchen sink, laundry........I'll bring the level up high enough for head pressure at the clog, my sight gauge so I can tell I'm onto the problem. When I'm hitting a cleanout with an offset to where I can't see it or I can never get the level high enough because of where I'm at, I'm looking at the floor drain watching it for the first sign of a drop.

    If I start to see it drop, I'll stand up instantly and pull that cable out about 4-6 feet to "pop" that clog. That quick movement send the force of the water right through the clog where the cable was, starts the ending to the problem.


    Of course, toilet paper won't have this result most times but back in the day my boss would tell us to use the large spring, the retriever attachment if we thought was a toilet paper clog along with a blow-up sack in the same drain with the cable turning going in in the the same opening. If that was your last opening heading to the main, you're in business.

    Before I even get the clog open, I tell the customer "As soon as I give you the go ahead, I want you to flush every toilet in the house 10 times in a row, run every faucet in the house when I get this drain unclogged.

    ^^
    I've never seen these words in print, anywhere. Drain cleaning without the use of water is a sin in my book because you're leaving residual buildup in the pipe.....the cable is NOT going to bring back everything you think it is, no way.

    You eat with the use of a beverage, no reason it doesn't apply to the method of drain cleaning.


    I'm pointing this out and making notice of this obvious "hidden" practice. Some of you probably do this as second nature like I do, some of you are going to get real defensive and possibly object to this practice. I don't really care either way, I'm just putting it in full view so the public knows of its benefits to the cleaning of a drain.


    Of course jetting is excluded from this rant, I'm talking about cleaning a drain and making darn sure the customer gets the best bang for the buck.

    It is not uncommon for me to run all the hot water out of a water heater after I open a kitchen sink drain, laundry tub. On a main drain I'll have the customer almost wonder why I asked them to run every faucet in the house for 10-15 minutes. My response?

    "Sir/Ma'am? What is cheaper? Me coming back to charge you again to clear this drain or the cost of the water that was used to make sure it is clean?"

    Water is cheaper, by far.....and when I tell them the do you eat a large meal and order a shot glass for a beverage line, they agree totally to my thinking

    AND

    most of the time I hear "Ya know, you're the first guy that has ever asked us to run water after the drain is opened."


    Hrmmmmmmm... interesting. Sounds like someone is setting themselves up for job security for the "next time" it's going to happen....because it is. Residual buildup that will most likely take months to backup again. Simple? Simple.


    So, what's up with this non-mentioning of the use (lack-of) of water, hydropressure to clear a drain? Just the water standing behind the clog is not enough.
    Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 03-06-2008, 12:30 AM.
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  • #2
    Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

    Good point. I remember in particular one drain...kitchen drain clogged with grease, I cabled it out 4-5 times and it still wouldn't clear!!! Finally I just filled up both sinks to the tipy top and waited....WOOOSSSHHH! They dropped like mad! The cable had stirred up all the grease but the large volume of water is what cleared the drain.
    Since then I have done it many times....works excellently on kitchen grease clogs. Now i don't waste time, I just do one thorough pass with the cable and then let the head pressure do its work.
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    • #3
      Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

      i guess it's second nature for me.

      on an outside clean out, i'll fill the pipe to the level of the c/o. once cleared i'll have the homeowner run all the fixtures, and double check the tubs and showers. i'll even throw a hose in the line to help flush and clean.

      if i'm on the roof, i'll usually hear the line clear and have the owner turn on all the water. i also document the distance to clear, the distance i ran and the cable and cutter choice.

      this all gets put on the invoice and customer profile.

      just like fishing, i already know where the fish(roots) are. makes it very easy to do preventative when there is no stoppage.

      rick.
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

        Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
        There's no point of starting a poll on this one because I don't think people will be honest, in print on this subject matter.




        I never hear of anyone EVER talking about using hydropressure, the standing water behind the clog as calculated leverage towards unclogging the drain.


        When you're called out to clear a drain, you should be instantly telling the customer to flood the system, meaning bringing the maximum level of water standing behind that clog without doing damage to the surroundings. Meaning, don't add water to the equation if you know it's going to destroy a carpet or items on the floor.

        Water is one of the most powerful tools when clearing a drain, it's the helping hand that offers flow-by when you DO start to pop that clog and get it rolling.


        DO YOU GO TO A RESTAURANT AND HAVE A FOUR COURSE MEAL, ORDER A SHOT GLASS FOR A BEVERAGE?

        Of course not.

        Water is the key ingredient to the equation of effectively clearing drains. You don't get a damn cookie for the most stuff retrieved out of the drain. Why touch the ****? Don't offer the logic that it should be out of the drain, not in it. IF you are truly attacking that drain correctly, you're going the full length, structure to main sewer. Once it makes it to the main sewer, it's someone else's problem, PERIOD. If it's a septic tank and you know it's something that can stay floating and jump the baffles, head to the distribution box and cause problems, better use your head and get what it is back.....but 9 times out of 10 you'll never get everything, especially tampons.

        That water standing in a closet bend, floor drain, kitchen sink, laundry........I'll bring the level up high enough for head pressure at the clog, my sight gauge so I can tell I'm onto the problem. When I'm hitting a cleanout with an offset to where I can't see it or I can never get the level high enough because of where I'm at, I'm looking at the floor drain watching it for the first sign of a drop.

        If I start to see it drop, I'll stand up instantly and pull that cable out about 4-6 feet to "pop" that clog. That quick movement send the force of the water right through the clog where the cable was, starts the ending to the problem.


        Of course, toilet paper won't have this result most times but back in the day my boss would tell us to use the large spring, the retriever attachment if we thought was a toilet paper clog along with a blow-up sack in the same drain with the cable turning going in in the the same opening. If that was your last opening heading to the main, you're in business.

        Before I even get the clog open, I tell the customer "As soon as I give you the go ahead, I want you to flush every toilet in the house 10 times in a row, run every faucet in the house when I get this drain unclogged.

        ^^
        I've never seen these words in print, anywhere. Drain cleaning without the use of water is a sin in my book because you're leaving residual buildup in the pipe.....the cable is NOT going to bring back everything you think it is, no way.

        You eat with the use of a beverage, no reason it doesn't apply to the method of drain cleaning.


        I'm pointing this out and making notice of this obvious "hidden" practice. Some of you probably do this as second nature like I do, some of you are going to get real defensive and possibly object to this practice. I don't really care either way, I'm just putting it in full view so the public knows of its benefits to the cleaning of a drain.


        Of course jetting is excluded from this rant, I'm talking about cleaning a drain and making darn sure the customer gets the best bang for the buck.

        It is not uncommon for me to run all the hot water out of a water heater after I open a kitchen sink drain, laundry tub. On a main drain I'll have the customer almost wonder why I asked them to run every faucet in the house for 10-15 minutes. My response?

        "Sir/Ma'am? What is cheaper? Me coming back to charge you again to clear this drain or the cost of the water that was used to make sure it is clean?"

        Water is cheaper, by far.....and when I tell them the do you eat a large meal and order a shot glass for a beverage line, they agree totally to my thinking

        AND

        most of the time I hear "Ya know, you're the first guy that has ever asked us to run water after the drain is opened."


        Hrmmmmmmm... interesting. Sounds like someone is setting themselves up for job security for the "next time" it's going to happen....because it is. Residual buildup that will most likely take months to backup again. Simple? Simple.


        So, what's up with this non-mentioning of the use (lack-of) of water, hydropressure to clear a drain? Just the water standing behind the clog is not enough.

        I agree with you. I like to fill the line up so when I clear the line I know it. I also fill the bathtubs with hot water to flush the lines. I test the lines with multiple flushes with toilet paper to make sure its passing through the lines. Never had a complaint from a customer, they appreciate you doing a complete job and testing it........The Other Rick
        The Other Rick

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

          Dunbar, I agree with almost everything you said in your post. The only thing I don't like is when the customers keep using water until you get there. I hate seeing the kitchen sink full to the rim, when I am just going to have to pump the water out so I don't flood the place when I pull the clean out cover off under the sink. It only takes a minute for me to start running faucets, and I can raise the water level enough so that I know exactly when I hit the clog, and I can work that spot with the machine.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

            i thought it was something that was done as a matter of course. water pressure/weight IS your friend.

            like rick, i wouldn't have the client fill everything up. i'd ratgher see the situation and determine when and where to add water.

            i've got a 24" braided fill hose so i can put water directly into the pipe after the toilet has been removed. convenient and less messy tahn tryingto pour a bucket of water down the hole. i also attach a very heavy set of vice grips to the fill hose so i can leave the water running and go listen at the ouside cleanout or the septic tank for good water flow.

            steve
            Last edited by stxrus; 03-06-2008, 10:27 AM. Reason: my impekable typing skills
            In the never ending struggle to keep the water flowing.... The Poo Poo Cowboy rides again!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

              good advise dunbar. i agree with all of that. i do agree with nevada also i dont trust homeowners enough to know when to turn the water off.
              Mike
              Clark County Plumbing And Drain
              www.plumbinginclarkcounty.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

                I'm making a little invention that will allow you to run water in the drain of a kitchen sink while the p-trap is removed. As soon as I get off my butt to make it, I'll post pics. It should cost less than 20 to make and it work great-in my mind.
                Buy cheap, buy twice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

                  Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                  I'm making a little invention that will allow you to run water in the drain of a kitchen sink while the p-trap is removed. As soon as I get off my butt to make it, I'll post pics. It should cost less than 20 to make and it work great-in my mind.
                  ben, don't think too hard

                  with a sectional it's simple to add a 1.5'' flex hose to the drain and run water into it.

                  i use a barbed male or female hose adapter, and a 2' section of 1.5'' clear flex hose. once i have my cable into the line, i'll add the hose section before the next cable section. then i have an aerator hose adapter. i elevate the clear hose and can fill it before it overflows. as the cable advances, i'll see when the line clears and continue the water flow.

                  the advantage using this with a sectional, is that you can add or remove this hose at any time by disconnecting the next 7.5' section.

                  ben, is your idea easier?

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

                    yep
                    Buy cheap, buy twice.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions


                      I agree with DUNBAR i have used this on all my drains over the last 35 plus yrs.
                      if running from roof vent i always fill both sides of sink because you get appox. 85 lbs. pressure aganist the stoppage even before you start running snake,

                      also start to flush line out when you clear blockadge,
                      and then start running faucet to keep flushing line ! !

                      most imporant use cold water till the blockadge is cleared then run warm or hot water ! ! !

                      JERRYMAC
                      JERRYMAC
                      E-MAILJERRYMAC777@GMAIL.COM
                      CALIF. LIC. PLBG,HEAT,DRAINS,ELECTRIC,WATER HEATER, BOILER, POOL AND SPA HEATER
                      FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
                      SINCE JAN. 1989

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

                        85 lbs. pressure
                        how do you figure that,

                        you would need to have the sinks 190 feet in the air above the clog to get 85 pounds per square inch of pressure on the clog,

                        Water pressure can be expressed as either “psi” (pounds of pressure per square inch) or “feet of head.” A column of water 1 foot high exerts 0.433 psi at the bottom and therefore 1 psi is equivalent to 2.31 feet of head. This means that for every foot of elevation change from the pump to the sprinkler heads, the corresponding change in pressure will be 0.433 psi. http://ohioline.osu.edu/b912/step_8.html
                        or a chart here,

                        http://www.accontrols.com/documents/...toFeetHead.pdf

                        the amount of water in the tank (sink) does not add to the pressure, only the height of the column of water adds to the pressure. you could have one gallon or a million gallons of water and the pressure is the same in the pipe at a given height,
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                        • #13
                          Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

                          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                          i guess it's second nature for me.

                          on an outside clean out, i'll fill the pipe to the level of the c/o. once cleared i'll have the homeowner run all the fixtures, and double check the tubs and showers. i'll even throw a hose in the line to help flush and clean.

                          if i'm on the roof, i'll usually hear the line clear and have the owner turn on all the water. i also document the distance to clear, the distance i ran and the cable and cutter choice.

                          this all gets put on the invoice and customer profile.

                          just like fishing, i already know where the fish(roots) are. makes it very easy to do preventative when there is no stoppage.

                          rick.
                          That's exactly how I was trained to do it 20 yrs. ago.
                          Use as much water as you can to your advantage and
                          quick simple notes go a long way.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

                            I worked off the ideal that each side of the sink holds appox. 5 gals. of water x 2 equals 10 gals. x 8.5 lbs. per gallon = 85 lbs. on the drain stopadge plus or minus the distance down the drain to the blockadge
                            JERRYMAC
                            E-MAILJERRYMAC777@GMAIL.COM
                            CALIF. LIC. PLBG,HEAT,DRAINS,ELECTRIC,WATER HEATER, BOILER, POOL AND SPA HEATER
                            FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
                            SINCE JAN. 1989

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Why isn't this mentioned, daily in drain cleaning discussions

                              Originally posted by JERRYMAC View Post
                              I worked off the ideal that each side of the sink holds appox. 5 gals. of water x 2 equals 10 gals. x 8.5 lbs. per gallon = 85 lbs. on the drain stopadge plus or minus the distance down the drain to the blockadge
                              Not good physics. PSI (pounds per square inch) is not the same as total weight.
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