Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

    For those of you that get the cleaner mag. Check out pg 82. An article by Matt (Director of Drain Cleaning at Ridge) You'll have to check what he says against your arguments

    I think some of his article is born from forum discussion.

    Josh

  • #2
    Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

    You must get the early edition. I have not got mine yet.
    INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
    Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

      here is the article for those that can't find it. copied from the cleaner magazine.

      the way i take it. matt is on team sectional at the roundup

      A Matter of Preference

      Matt Ondrejko (page 82)
      Some contractors like sectional cable machines. Others prefer drums. What matters most is to understand them — and to use them safely.
      Drain cleaning has always been a bit of an art, and it remains so, even in the age of line inspection cameras and auto-feed drum machines.

      It’s still a matter of knowing the nuances of plumbing and your machine, anticipating the nature and location of the blockage, and working your way through it with the cable. It’s no surprise that machine operators today want more convenience and assurance built in, and that manufacturers are finding innovative ways to provide both, often in the same device.
      Sectional or drum?
      There are two distinctly different kinds of drain-cleaning machines, and preferences tend to be regional. Contractors in much of the East Coast and Midwest regions favor sectional machines, in which shorter lengths of cable are joined together and fed through one at a time. The rest of the nation prefers drum machines, which store continuous cables onboard in a drum. Trades-people are traditionalists, so they tend to stick with the equipment they learned on, or its latest incarnation.
      Demographics aside, each type of machine has its practical strengths. With a sectional machine, you don’t have to lug around 100 feet of cable for a 20-foot job. If this seems trivial, it’s not. A 250-pound drum machine includes close to 125 pounds of cable. But with a sectional machine, the cable is stored in external baskets, in 7 1/2- to 15-foot lengths, which users can carry in as needed.
      Sectional cable doesn’t need to be as compact. Its more open, flexible cable design helps scour the sides of the drain as you move the cable in and out of the line. Moreover, if you wear out, break or kink a sectional cable, you only lose one piece. On the other hand, a break or kink in a drum-style cable shortens the entire cable and often makes the repair area less flexible.
      Differing speeds
      Another key difference between sectional and drum machines is the rate at which the cable spins: 400 to 700 rpm for sectionals, and about 200 rpm for drums. These rotational speeds represent the way the machines operate down the line.

      Sectional machines cut at higher speeds with low torque transfer. Because of their high rpm, the operator must use specially designed hand mitts, which have metal staples on the gripping surfaces that can tolerate heavy wear. Drum machines tend to rely more on torque transfer to remove the blockage. When using a drum machine, the operator wears leather-palmed work gloves that are supplied with the machine.
      While drum machines have foot-operated air switches, sectional machines have hand-operated clutch levers. Foot-operated air switches work well because they don’t bring electricity into contact with water, and they allow the operator to control the machine and cable with both hands.
      The sectional machine’s hand-operated clutch lever lets operators push down on the lever to engage the cable. Once the lever is released, the cable stops spinning.
      A primary advantage of drum machines is their cable containment, which helps keep jobsites and service trucks relatively clean. Sectional machines tend to be considered messier because more handling of cable is required when transferring the cable from the machine to the carrier.
      Drain machines come in a variety of sizes, from small hand-operated sink machines to big drain machines with various attachment heads. When shopping for drain machines, consider the environment where you will use them and the size of the drain.
      If you do mostly residential work, it makes sense to look for models narrow enough to fit through small doorways and to be carried easily down direction-changing stairs. Commercial jobsites tend to have greater access to clean-outs and open work areas, so the constraints related to machine choice are not as high.
      Automatic cable feed
      Another potential benefit of drum machines is automatic cable feed. Automatic mechanisms have been around for a while, but not every operator wants one. Over time, many have honed their ability to sense cable resistance and interpret the motor’s sound as it encounters and works through an obstruction. Plumbers know what that input means — they’re not willing to trade that knowledge for automation, and they don’t have to.
      The industry has perhaps misunderstood the real value of automatic feed. While automatic machines can sometimes plow through blockages unassisted, they are better used and designed to get to a blockage and back out of the drain with the least physical work on the operator’s part.
      Most obstructions still require hands on the cable — that’s still the best way to receive feedback on what is happening down the line, and to prevent flipping a cable in the drum or breaking it off inside the drain. Skill and feedback will always be required in drain cleaning.
      What automatic feed does is reduce the work, which can make a big difference, in a day or a career. Most plumbers and drain specialists these days send a camera down the line first, then pull it back, then send the cable down, auger through the obstruction, then retrieve the cable.
      When they get some flow going, they check it again with a camera. Combined, this could be 1,000 feet of pushing and pulling, and as noted, 100 feet of cable can weigh 125 pounds. Better to let the machine do the work. Let it open and close while you step in for the surgery.
      There are a variety of auto-feed mechanisms on the market. Most use a lever to engage the cable, typically with several internal bearings. Some models require switching the motor from forward to reverse, while others use a lever on the top of the automatic feed that lets you change cable direction on the fly. Move it one direction and it feeds the cable into the drain. Move it the other way and it draws the cable back into the drum.
      General safety
      Safety is so important that the precautions deserve repeating at every turn. Always wear appropriate eye protection, gloves, clothing and footwear. Keep your hair short or tied back, and always use some form of ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) protection when working in wet conditions, which in this business means every job.
      Many machines today come with GFCI protection built into the cords. And when you must use an extension cord, make it a heavy-duty outdoor-rated cord that is as short as possible, to avoid a substantial voltage drop.
      Choosing the right gloves is critical enough that reputable manufacturers supply appropriate gloves with their machines. Make sure the gloves you use are in good condition, and never use cloth gloves. It’s important to wear latex gloves beneath your work gloves to protect against sewer line pathogens and any acid, lye or other chemicals the customer may have poured down the drain before calling you.
      If there are three things to remember when operating a drain cleaner, they are:
      • Know the product you are using, and how to set it up and operate it properly according to the manufac-turer’s instructions.
      • Only one person should operate the drain cleaner at a time. This assures that the operator is in control of both the cable and the machine.
      • Position the machine as close to the drain opening as possible. The less the cable is exposed outside the drain, the better you can control the cable and machine.
      Back-saving features
      Speaking of safety, plumbers are known for their lumbar problems — it’s where the years settle first. So manufacturers work hard to limit the back strain associated with moving drain machines around.
      Larger machines are often available with stair climbers, which are metal frames with rubber tracks, like those on refrigeration dollies. Flip-down loading wheels and lifting hooks help you move a heavy machine off a truck with less strain, and some machines have parking brakes, which keep the machine from moving back or dancing around when in use. When a machine stays put, you won’t have to reposition it. The little things can make a real difference.
      Matt Ondrejko is director of marketing, plumbing and pressing technologies with RIDGID, based in Elyria, Ohio. He can be reached at Matt.Ondrejko@emerson.com.
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

        A primary advantage of drum machines is their cable containment, which helps keep jobsites and service trucks relatively clean. Sectional machines tend to be considered messier because more handling of cable is required when transferring the cable from the machine to the carrier.
        Drain machines come in a variety of sizes, from small hand-operated sink machines to big drain machines with various attachment heads. When shopping for drain machines, consider the environment where you will use them and the size of the drain.
        If you do mostly residential work, it makes sense to look for models narrow enough to fit through small doorways and to be carried easily down direction-changing stairs. Commercial jobsites tend to have greater access to clean-outs and open work areas, so the constraints related to machine choice are not as high.






        Amen

        Way i take it, my man is on board for TEAM DRUM
        The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

        www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

          Josh, you put more Matt on the spot! Now he has to choose sides
          I love my plumber

          "My Hero"

          Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

            Originally posted by Drain Medic View Post
            A primary advantage of drum machines is their cable containment, which helps keep jobsites and service trucks relatively clean. Sectional machines tend to be considered messier because more handling of cable is required when transferring the cable from the machine to the carrier.
            Drain machines come in a variety of sizes, from small hand-operated sink machines to big drain machines with various attachment heads. When shopping for drain machines, consider the environment where you will use them and the size of the drain.
            If you do mostly residential work, it makes sense to look for models narrow enough to fit through small doorways and to be carried easily down direction-changing stairs. Commercial jobsites tend to have greater access to clean-outs and open work areas, so the constraints related to machine choice are not as high.






            Amen

            Way i take it, my man is on board for TEAM DRUM
            Very perceptive of you to take the fact that sectional machines tend to be considered messier to mean the drum machine is a better choice. It seems that is the only advantage listed for the drum machine and even then the author does not say it is true. If I am headed for an interior drain I would much rather put a pair of booties on and carry my machine than roll a drum machine through the house.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
              Very perceptive of you to take the fact that sectional machines tend to be considered messier to mean the drum machine is a better choice. It seems that is the only advantage listed for the drum machine and even then the author does not say it is true. If I am headed for an interior drain I would much rather put a pair of booties on and carry my machine than roll a drum machine through the house.

              Mark

              Thats why i love these arguments. Only time i would take a sectional into a house would be into a basement with alot of space. I would much rather have a drum sitting at the bathroom door then a sectional cable flopping against the walls and tiles and the mess that a sectional leaves, and yes you have to agree a sectional will leave alot more of a mess then a drum would.

              Now in a bathroom i would much rather be sitting down using the feeder then trying to connect cables, disconnect cables. More time then what its worth to me personally. Only takes an extra 2 mins to roll tarps on the floor for the drum to wheel it into the house.

              Either drum or sectional, my booties are on. That is mandatory. Even just to give estimates.
              The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

              www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

                Never a debate for me I own both types the job dictates which machine I use. But I do carry the k60 fulltime with my ridgid k39af and electric little jetter. With these 3 machines I can handle most jobs that I get dispatched to while riding around in my van. My Auto feed 200 ft drum snake and bucket wait eagerly at my shop for some action.
                Seattle Drain Service

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

                  Originally posted by Drain Medic View Post
                  Thats why i love these arguments. Only time i would take a sectional into a house would be into a basement with alot of space. I would much rather have a drum sitting at the bathroom door then a sectional cable flopping against the walls and tiles and the mess that a sectional leaves, and yes you have to agree a sectional will leave alot more of a mess then a drum would.

                  Now in a bathroom i would much rather be sitting down using the feeder then trying to connect cables, disconnect cables. More time then what its worth to me personally. Only takes an extra 2 mins to roll tarps on the floor for the drum to wheel it into the house.

                  Either drum or sectional, my booties are on. That is mandatory. Even just to give estimates.
                  When I hear the arguments about the sectionals being messy I wonder how you guys are using them. As far as bouncing off of the walls I have no more cable exposed with a sectional than I do with a drum. I always use cloth drop clothes which I assume you do as well. I always use my rear guide hose so the cable is always contained. I always try to have water running as I remove my cable and I always wipe my cable as it comes out of the line.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008



                    HONKKKK HONKKK the tanks coming through, make some way...
                    Proud To Be Union!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

                      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                      When I hear the arguments about the sectionals being messy I wonder how you guys are using them. As far as bouncing off of the walls I have no more cable exposed with a sectional than I do with a drum. I always use cloth drop clothes which I assume you do as well. I always use my rear guide hose so the cable is always contained. I always try to have water running as I remove my cable and I always wipe my cable as it comes out of the line.

                      Mark

                      Thats because most sectionals you see around here are the electric eels. When i see the other guys using the K60s around here, they arent using the guide tubes or containing the cables.
                      The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

                      www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

                        My 300 has been sitting for 2 weeks right now.......kinda like it.


                        What no one acknowledges is the heaviness of a K-60 AND the reel of cable on each side of your body when you carry it in. Not unless you believe in not hurting your back and make......hrmmmm lets see 4 trips to safely operate your equipment?


                        Has to be at least a 100 pounds minimum, no? < The two combined if you he-man it into the basement or in the house.

                        Not a wheel in sight either. The drum allows movement without relying of lifting the total weight from point A to point B.


                        Tribe has spoken

                        Lift your K-60, put out your fire

                        leave the roundup immediately



                        ebbery body wave bye!
                        Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 04-23-2008, 12:34 AM.
                        Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

                          Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
                          What no one acknowledges is the heaviness of a K-60
                          I can lift it Need a girl to help ya
                          I love my plumber

                          "My Hero"

                          Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

                            Originally posted by MrsSeatDown View Post
                            I can lift it Need a girl to help ya


                            True true true........but .....it's no vaccum cleaner carrying it up and down steps.


                            Every day I thank the caveman for inventing the wheel.



                            Are you for hire? I'm turning all my calls away these days.....

                            building a penguin truck
                            Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Sectional vs. Drum - Cleaner May 2008

                              Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post

                              Are you for hire?
                              You can't afford me
                              I love my plumber

                              "My Hero"

                              Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X