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  • #16
    Re: Trap clogs????

    Hi Gentlemen,

    Thanks for your comments and feedback. It is apparent that most likely you have not seen or installed PermaFLOW or seen it in operationa nd therefore your concerns may be valid to an extent. You are the experts however I am attempting to provide some factual information that may help you better assess the product capabilities. I would also be pleased to ship you a sample for free testing and evaluation and am available to talk to you or address any specific concerns through e-mail. My name is Sanjay Ahuja; e-mail address is sanjay.ahuja@pfwaterworks.com and the number to call is 1-877-265-9777.

    Now to the specific issues raised in the thread.

    a. Does P-Trap ever clog or gets debris build-up. Is PermaFLOW trying to sell on people's ignorance.

    I am attaching a picture of the of actual P-Traps that will help you get an answer to this. I just opened the P-trap in my hotel room after seeing your thread just to check this. There is also siginificant information available on the internet wherein P-Trap build-up and clog problem is identified as a very common problem. In most cases, however - the home owners, try to address this themselves - by using plungers, chemicals or disassembling the P-trap and either cleaning it to replacing it. Usually they call for professional plumber assistance after they have attempted the above and couldn't solve it because the clog is further down the line - so I guess it is not surprising that most of you may not have seen P-trap build-up or clog.

    I have personally spoken to over 10000 home owners and majority of them have told me that they constantly face clogs and build-up in the traps and have become experts at opening and cleaning/replacing traps - but hate doing it (all the muck and mess that entails with it). In fact, as the faucet flow rate is being reduced from 2.5 gpm to the now almost standard 1gpm, the frequency of build-up of debris in the P-trap is going to increase.

    b. Why should someone install PermaFLOW when they could either use Plunger, Pour Chemicals or Disassemble and Replace the P-trap themselves.

    PermaFLOW has been designed to assist the homeowners with the issues that they commonly face with the P-Trap and to help reduce some of their day to day frustration. It is just another tool to solve the problem - just like the plunger or chemicals.

    PermaFLOW offers several features and benefits and has undergone extensive testing to support each of these claims. I will be happy to share the details of each of the tests with you, if you so desire.

    Features:

    1. The device provides an effective water seal against sewer gases
    2. Made out of clear ABS so Transparency enhances diagnostics and problem solving
    3. Geometry promotes better flow characteristics for self cleaning
    4. The wiper can create an emergency by-pass for water to flow through the upper chamber (3 O' Clock position)
    5. The wiper can scrape to loosen and lift settled material into the flow stream for removal
    6. The wiper can create suction which helps to clean the extension tube
    7. The wiper creates temporary increased flow (surging) which helps to clear debris through the waste arm - It doesn't create a syphon effect.
    8. Lower flow rates can be used without negatively affecting the drain efficiency which supports water conservation
    9. The wiper can protect against the loss of valuables dropped in the drain
    10. The wiper provides a means to retrieve lost articles through the sink drain
    11. The device is durable with a long life - and is fully recyclable.

    Benefits:

    When PermaFLOW is used, chemical cleaners, disassembly and external intervention are not required.

    1) protects the individual from harm due to inhalation or exposure to harmful chemicals or other substances
    2) protects the environment from harmful chemicals
    3) protects septic systems from disruption of necessary bacteria
    4) provides uncontaminated gray water for re-use.
    5) eliminates the need for high volume or hot water flushing
    6) eliminates damage to sink fixtures and plumbing due to corrosive chemicals

    c. Is PermaFLOW Code approved

    PermaFLOW has been tested by IAPMO and has been certified to comply with Uniform Plumbing Code (UPC), International Plumbing Code (IPC) and International Residential Code (IRC). The sewer seal is not dependent upon the moving part nor does the moving wiper in PermaFLOW cause any obstruction or restriction to the flow. Please seee attached document for more details.

    d. What happens to the diamond ring with the PermaFLOW - does it get washed away.

    In fact it is exactly the opposite - with PermaFLOW if someone drops a piece of jewelry, they can move the wiper to 3 O' Clock position (by-pass position) and lock the item in place so it can't flow away. The wiper does not push the item out into the waste arm - so it is actually much safer than traditional P-trap which is smaller in size and the item could fly way as a result. The wiper can also be used to move the jewelry to 9 O' Clock position and thereby making is very concvenient to retrieve it through the sink using a coat hanger hook without need to opne the P-trap and deal with the mess (of course the pop-up drain will need to be losened).


    e. Can we snake through PermaFLOW

    Absolutely - PermaFLOW acts just like a traditional P-Trap in its normal operation. The Wiper acts as a In-line drain cleaner and doesn't affect the P-Trap operation. See attached file for actual snaking through PermaFLOW.


    I am sure you may have other concerns or questions and I available to address any other specific concerns that you might have but would really appreciate if you could actually try and test the product. Please let me know if you would like to get a sample......Thanks and Best Regards....Sanjay
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Trap clogs????

      Sanjay Ahuja I normally would delete your post as self-serving but you are responding to a Thread which is discussing your product. As such I will leave your post alone for now and I appreciate you defending your product here.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Trap clogs????

        Originally posted by PermaFLOW View Post

        Now to the specific issues raised in the thread.




        Long hair inside the trap is going to stop the operation of the ability to turn the dial, or it will constantly have hair that won't allow a self-scouring action of the trapway.


        The clearness of your trapway will soon disappear if anyone is trying to do a visual to see if it is clean, especially where the water sits in the trapway in a non-moving position.


        I guess discussing it on here has made your day....search engines found it, you just searched your own product name and the hits all lined up....so you're here for damage control and promotion of product.

        I'm sure you'll sell a bunch of these to no-knowledge homeowners but hey, that's your target right?
        Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Trap clogs????

          I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I would love to try one of these things out in my own house to see it actually work. Might even start installing them in kids bathrooms where it is quite likely for things to be dropped down the drain. Heck, this product would probably even encourage kids to throw things in the drain, just so they can see it lay in the bottom of the P-trap. Let them sweep it through the P-trap then we can make more money augering the trap arm later.
          Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Trap clogs????

            Sorry Mr. Permaflow.... from my perspective your product is a solution to a prolem that does not exist.
            This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Trap clogs????

              Hey guys he had the guts to come on here and face some stiff criticism. I'm not suggesting you take it easy on him but let's try to be respectful.

              Thanks-Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Trap clogs????

                Its got a part that moves...that makes it mechanical. If the Plumbing Code of Illinois approves this device I would be suprised.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Trap clogs????

                  I believe a mechanical trap is a trap which relies on mechanical means to secure a trap seal.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Trap clogs????

                    http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/...00D04100R.html


                    d) "Type of Traps. Traps shall have a uniform and smooth interior, and shall have no partitions or movable parts. The trap seal shall be non-adjustable. (See Appendix D: Illustration C.) "

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Trap clogs????

                      Well from what my cousin tells me there isn't much that is legal in Illinois. But I would love to see something like this put on a toilet. No more removing the toilet or trying to catch something with a auger and get it out. I could go for that easy money

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Trap clogs????

                        Originally posted by NorthernIllinoisPlumber View Post
                        http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/...00D04100R.html


                        d) "Type of Traps. Traps shall have a uniform and smooth interior, and shall have no partitions or movable parts. The trap seal shall be non-adjustable. (See Appendix D: Illustration C.) "
                        This language which is in your Code is in both the Uniform and the International Codes:

                        k) Prohibited Traps. Use of the following traps is prohibited (see Appendix D: Illustration E):

                        1) Traps which depend upon the action of movable parts for their seal.

                        2) Full "S" traps. Exception: Water closet and similar fixtures which depend on self-siphonage for their proper operation.

                        3) Bell traps.

                        4) Crown vented traps.

                        5) Unvented running traps.

                        6) Fixtures with concealed interior partitioned traps. Exception: Fixtures with integral traps constructed of vitrified earthenware and penal institutional fixtures with integral traps constructed of ferrous material.

                        Which is what I was referring to. However, it does appear it is trumped by the section you posted.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Trap clogs????

                          Hi Dunbar,

                          No we do not want to sell this to the no-knowledge homeowners. Almost everyone who has purchased PermaFLOW product has told us how many times they have had to deal with clogs in the P-Trap. I can also connect you with several satisfied users.

                          Also, as I said PermaFLOW has had extensive testing including with hairs etc. I have no desire to make this forum into a contest - I am just trying to provide some information that may help you and others. If you directly contact me I will be pleased to share with you testing videos with hairs, metamucil, shaving foam, food debris, carrot peels, potato peels, sand, lard etc etc......I would just appreciate if you just keep an open mind and try the product before making final conclusions......Sanjay

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Trap clogs????

                            Mark,
                            Thank-you for allowing Sanjays/Premaflows post, it is only right that he have a chance to defend his product.

                            Sanjay,
                            A a drain cleaner I just do NOT see a need for this product. I personally do not see trap clogs. 9 times out of 10 when I get to a home with a clogged sink the trap has already been removed. I am in a rural area and the whole state is known for ingenuity and self-self sufficiency so maybe my opinion has something to do with my surroundings but I'm thinking it has more to do with reality.

                            TO ALL PLUMBERS AND DRAIN CLEANERS,
                            Please list years of experience and an estimate of how many trap clogs you have seen. Not including drum traps.

                            ME: Guessing about 4 yrs total. 1 trap clog, matchbox car.


                            Sanjay,
                            I will PM you my address. I would be more then happy to test your product. I do not see a need for it but maybe you can enlighten me.
                            Gene
                            INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
                            Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Trap clogs????

                              I have never dealt with many trap clogs either. Even in my own house. I have been able to deal with any clogs in my house with a simple plunger as I never let the drain get too much buildup as most people do.
                              Also I have been cleaning drains for 11 years, and most of my customers usually DO NOT try to disassemble the trap before they call. When I disassemble the trap on a clogged drain, it is almost always clear. I have cleaned many hundreds of drains and cut out and repiped a good number. The problem is almost always further down the line in a HORIZONTAL part of the drainage system.

                              I personally think this product is very ingenious and intersting....but also a compete waste of money. Sink traps are just not where clogs happen generally. And I say that from a point of view with great experience.
                              Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Trap clogs????

                                I agree that many times calls in reference to plugged drains are after the trap assembly. However, many times it is also before. Hair trapped in the crosshairs on a tub drain. Hair caught on the pop-up assembly in a lavatory sink. However, I feel it has its place. On a job about a year ago and pulled out a diamond ring from a sink P-trap that his deceased wife had lost years ago. I showed it to him and he started crying.
                                Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

                                Comment

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