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Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

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  • Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

    One of my best customers has a 80' main sewer. The house is 140 years old but I doubt the cast iron sewer is that age, maybe 100+/-

    Every few months they have a soft stoppage. Each time easily cleared pulling nothing back but toilet paper. I ran a camera down last week and found out whats going on. The line has a belly or maybe just a flat spot about 15'-20' long in the middle. This belly has collected debris over the years and now the line has about an inch of debris laying on the bottom.

    I ran the snake down to break up the debris with every head I had. No luck. The cable just kept skipping over top and passing without breaking it up.

    Yesterday, I brought the jetter with me (13HP 4GPM @ 3500 psi) After 4 hours and 6 or 8 passes I was able to remove most of the problem but not all. Looks like the debris that's left on the bottom is either plaster or grout. The house went through a complete remodel several years ago. It was breaking off in thin layers. With the camera I could see where the jetter was beginning to scar the top of the material but wasn't penetrating enough to break apart.

    My question is, should I have spent more time working on it? Seems like 4 hours should have been enough or am I just lacking patience? I ran a descaling spinning head with little result. Rick was right it spins too fast to be effective.

    Then I ran a 4 port rear (30 degree) 0 front nozzle head. Worked much better but if the ports didn't hit the debris just right it had little effect.

    I was thinking I needed something like the Root Ranger to apply all the effective cleaning action into one concentrated stream to break this stuff up. Maybe there is something else on the market that would work without having to upgrade my jetter and add a Warthog. That's just not in the budget right now.

    Most of the use my jetter gets is for descaling old pipes with similar problems. Never had a problem where the nozzles just wouldn't pulverize.

    I'll try and capture a few pics from the video

    Any suggestions would be helpful

    Plumberscrack- The Jetting Jester

  • #2
    Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

    Pic. 1 This is what was breaking off and washing down the line
    Click image for larger version

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    Pic 2 Shows the layers of material coming off in sheets
    Click image for larger version

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    Pic 3 This is material that just wouldn't break loose. You can see some scarring on top from the jetter. I worked this spot for at least a half hour with little or no improvement.
    Click image for larger version

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    The material that is left in the sewer is probably 5 or 6 feet long and maybe a 1/2" thick. It's nice and smooth on top. I'm just worried that it might start to dam up with toilet paper again.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

      You said it the root ranger with your machine would do the best at it but I don't know if the perfect result would happen but better than what you tried.
      Seattle Drain Service

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

        Well, I have a couple of thoughts.

        1) you have affected it, so some more time there might do some more good

        2) 4 hours to get six or 8 passes sounds excessive; are you doing nice slow passes the whole length of the line? thats the only way I can think of burning 4 hours. I think most of that effort is wasted; clean the section where the problem is. I'd suggest run the nozzle in, shut down, camera behind it, then pull back hose until just at lower end of belly, mark hose, similarly mark hose at upper end of problem area, then pull cam out and work the heck out of that section, give it maybe 10-15 min in one little area, then cam and see if you are doing any good. On the other hand, if your 4 hours has mostly all been spent on this section, you've already done all you are going to do with this equipment.

        3) cable with a huge bit and a whip to break it up first?

        4) warthog or root ranger

        5) smaller nozzle orifices to up pressure to max at your flow rate

        6) bigger (more flow) jetter
        This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

          Thanks guys,

          I tried a few different heads on the snake but I don't have a chain head. Maybe I'll look into that. I did open up a 'C' cutter but it just kept getting stuck. Same with the 'H' cutter.

          Was going really slow with the pull. Probably 2 hours total focused on this bad section. It's still a huge improvement over what was there before. A lot of time was spent washing the chunks down the main before they piled up. They dammed up and made the spot checks difficult with camera.

          Somehow, I expected better results. I told the customer he would have a perfectly operational sewer before I started and that's just not the case now.

          I'll probably end up eating some of the time spent there or bring in a competitor to run a Warthog until I can find a Root Ranger

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

            I would try a chain knocker... They are pretty easy to make if you feel froggy

            Crack what size line is this?

            Okie
            Last edited by OkieBill; 01-10-2009, 08:50 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

              4" cast

              Most of my jetter work is in 4 cast or 6" clay

              Those chain knockers really work? They just seemed like a gimmick to me

              I did find this on eBay:
              http://cgi.ebay.com/hydro-jetting-se...3A1%7C294%3A50

              He's not far from me. Maybe I'll swing by and see what he has. I've bought from him before and liked what I got.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

                A gnarly whip attachment oughta break it up. As mentioned, just work that area back and forth, let bang around then go back with the jetter.
                Attached Files
                Last edited by Twicepipes; 01-10-2009, 11:26 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

                  You need a jetter that can pair up with a 3/8 warthog. I called them and had them make a nozzle for me specifically for descaling 4" and 6" cast iron pipe. I will get some pics later of the custom Warthog nozzle and post them in this thread.

                  Some of you saw the chunks i keep in my van of the scale i was able to remove. It was amazing! i chose it over the Root Rat with the wire cables and chains. Stoneage said if I purchased their nozzle over the Root Rat, they would refund the cost of the nozzle and let me keep it.

                  We removed more buckets of scale than we could remember.

                  Here are some pics:
                  Attached Files
                  www.firstresponsedrain.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

                    here is my take on the situation

                    the rotsry nozzle you were using is just a hi speed blender. all show and no go

                    the root ranger is a 0 degree impact single jet with a 15 degree oscillation

                    this allows for maximum impact and a wide coverage. all rear flowing. the propulsion is amazing as all the power is going rearward. nothing lost in powering the nozzle forward like the others.

                    the only issue i see is if you have a total stoppage, there is no forward jet on the current nozzle to assist in cutting the blockage.

                    remember that the rootranger is paired up with the ridgid kj300 with the same specs. 13 hp. 3000# 4 gpm

                    crack if you don't like the nozzle, i'll take it off your hands

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

                      My search engine must be broken. I can't even find the Root Ranger for sale anywhere.

                      Little help please

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

                        I found it online in New York I think I will look for the link
                        Seattle Drain Service

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

                          http://www.northstate.com/ridgid/index.html rr3000 is the search word I cant link right to the page but this is where I bought mine.
                          Seattle Drain Service

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

                            http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/ri...2866?ref=gbase

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Jetting- What Am I Doing Wrong?

                              The more I re read this thread it seems like a chain knocker and K-60 would have cleaned it up then a jetter to flush.
                              Seattle Drain Service

                              Comment

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