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  • #31
    Re: roof vent or pull toilet

    Originally posted by HebertDrainCare View Post
    I had to re-read this a couple times to make sure I read it right. ????

    Does not compute.


    Sure it does....computes perfectly:


    You have a customer with a chronic drain problem. They cannot afford for you to replace it, you know you have an annual job there or maybe bi-annual at this point.

    You know damn right well that if you're accessing the roof on a regular basis, even on a more random basis, you know that getting on the roof to clear a drain is missing the boat and the dock at some point.

    Soooooo,

    you ask the customer to provide you with access to a cleanout by allowing you to install one for X amount of dollars. Of course, this costs money. You try diligently to convince them that "IF you get us access to clear this drain by safer/more appropriate means, the charge is going to be less because it will take less effort."

    Most times you'll get the customer to grab this like a free tank of gas at a gas station.


    IF, you've been to the house more than a couple/three times doing the same thing over and over, charging a premium getting on that rooftop to access that drain, it's not going to kill you to spend less than a $100 of materials and a couple-three hours time installing that cleanout on the nod for that customer, knowing that customer is going to be very appreciative of that act, and finally getting that plumbing system where it needs to be like it should of been. That's why we plumbers are trained and licensed to correct problems.

    Toolaholic is doing it right, I'm doing it right, why can't we all just get along and do it right? We've all worked for free to do things right, this is a perfect example of correcting an ongoing problem in a home and setting the system correctly.

    The first plumber screwed up, there's no reason the rest of us should keep continuing the mistakes.

    I'm going to be putting up some pictures here soon of a job I did last week that shows how a new construction plumber cost 2 property owners thousands of dollars of grief and disturbing problems with their plumbing system...

    and the fix was less than 5 minutes and a couple braces during the construction phase of this home.

    I'm the plumber in the good ole boys club that will be drinkin' a beer with you one minute, taking names for what we as plumbers shouldn't be doing to our good customers, the ones that line our pockets for income and liveliehood.

    We owe our customers the right plumber coming in and fixing problems permanently whether it stops the cash flow or not.
    Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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    • #32
      Re: roof vent or pull toilet

      It is NEVER safe to go on any roof!
      http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

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      • #33
        Re: roof vent or pull toilet

        All Clear! Whats up!
        Seattle Drain Service

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        • #34
          Re: roof vent or pull toilet

          I'll be damn,


          Got All Clear to blow the cobwebs out of the exhaust pipes and show up!


          Welcome Back Drum Master!
          Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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          • #35
            Re: roof vent or pull toilet

            Originally posted by All Clear Sewer View Post
            It is NEVER safe to go on any roof!
            I went on the roof of the Empire State Building while I was in Manhattan and it seemed safe to me.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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            • #36
              Re: roof vent or pull toilet

              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
              I went on the roof of the Empire State Building while I was in Manhattan and it seemed safe to me.

              Mark
              Did you go on top of "the Rock" too?
              I love my plumber

              "My Hero"

              Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

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              • #37
                Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                Originally posted by MrsSeatDown View Post
                Did you go on top of "the Rock" too?
                No but Larry took the kids up there while we were there. Jared would not go because he said it was to high.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                  Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                  No but Larry took the kids up there while we were there. Jared would not go because he said it was to high.

                  Mark
                  But doesn't Jared fly helicopters?
                  I love my plumber

                  "My Hero"

                  Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                    Why do I get the feeling rick is going to use all the red font color on this site, replying to me ????


                    I'm a thinkin' I'm gonna get home schooled on plungering.

                    Ain't gonna happen!
                    Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                    • #40
                      Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                      Originally posted by MrsSeatDown View Post
                      But doesn't Jared fly helicopters?
                      Jaysen and Jared both fly helicopters and they are both afraid of heights.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                        Over here in Australia we have to have some sort of scaffolding when on roofs.
                        So we pull toilets when there is no Clean Out or what we call IO inspection openings.
                        If it is an old house I try and get them to put a Clean out/IO in.
                        Regards
                        Greg.

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                        • #42
                          Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                          Jaysen and Jared both fly helicopters and they are both afraid of heights.

                          Mark
                          I understand that if you are acrophobic it is only when they are not in control.
                          I love my plumber

                          "My Hero"

                          Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                            Originally posted by MrsSeatDown View Post
                            I understand that if you are acrophobic it is only when they are not in control.

                            I believe you are correct. If they were afraid of flying it would be aerophobia which isn't a great thing for pilots to have.

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                              No question on the ability to get the job done.

                              I just can't see selling a $200 to $1000 clean out install to a customer with a roof vent and a commode that can be pulled.

                              Most people have enough plumbing knowledge to know that their drain can be unstopped from a pulled commode or a clean out.

                              The first eight years of my plumbing career was strictly drain cleaning and I never ran into a situation where a clean out install was absolutely necessary.

                              I would lose business if the word of mouth I got was the guy who wants to install a clean out to unstop a sewer. Meanwhile my competitor is jumping on the roof, is done in an hour, and the customer is good to go for however long.

                              I can go to the job, run 3 inch blades up to 110 feet to the city connection from the roof, talk with the customer about how the grand kids are doing, collect, and be gone in 1 to 1.5 hours if there are no problems, on to the next.

                              I'd love to have clean outs everywhere though. If we could get everybody to put all fixtures on an exterior wall with a clean out sticking outside, life would be all the sweeter.

                              This is an interesting debate that I've never thought about before.

                              Love this forum.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                                Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
                                And since Gear Junkie (Ben) had to get on you about your pricing being subjectively lower than the market average...

                                since you have no idea as to what i charge and my net worth, i don't think you would want to put some real money on that statement.

                                think about all of the equipment i own, vehicles,house, shop, ect. do you really think i'm the cheapest guy? or the best guy?

                                I'd have 1500 customers without advertising as well, maybe 4000. But that's not the point I'm driving home here.

                                And to make a statement about "proper equipment"...

                                take your drum machine up on a roof and tell me you have the proper equipment for the job.

                                aren't you the fellow toting the plunger to unclog sinks and toilets?

                                a plunger is the best tool for a toilet paper stoppage. if you can't understand that, you rally need to read the forum consensus.

                                so anytime a customer can't unplug their own toilet, i guess it's because they have a non paper stoppage.

                                a plunger gets used 90% of the time on a toilet with perfect results and never leaves a mark or a leaking wax ring.

                                maybe you need a k-60 plunger to understand




                                Please, I can type red too but for god's sake, give me a break before you return statements back at me.

                                red separates your words from mine. i've done this for years.
                                joey suggested blue
                                I don't use plungers.

                                i do.

                                I don't get on roofs to clear drains.

                                i do as i have the equipment and experience.


                                I charge in the market average and higher most times

                                i can retire tomorrow if i want to. but not because i over charge. i've worked since i was 12 and i'm 45 soon to be 46. i set my prices and i have no competition to worry about. i do more work for other plumbers and contractors that you can imagine.

                                so seeing you have no idea about my situation.

                                I install cleanouts, and the $100 was material costs, not labor

                                a comby and a couple bands is far less than $100. it's the labor that is the deal breaker.

                                Instead of being 'cheaper' by going on the roof, you could take the hit and put the cleanout in for the customer for no cost if they can't afford it, and have that luxury of "INDUSTRY STANDARD" the next time it clogs

                                i wish they would enforce the codes better. unfortunately 75% of the guys would be out of business. the inspectors have their hands tied as i've already had this debate with the chief building inspector before. i called him out on a radio talk show. he had his assistant call me back 6 weeks later to discuss it.

                                I know without a doubt that if you go and unclog a toilet, a sink with a plunger, I know you're undercharging. Have to be....to keep smiles on those customers faces and justifying a legit charge for that move.

                                They made special tools to make tasks possible to warrant charges that go beyond $7.99 equipment.

                                it's not the cost of the equipment, but the knowledge of the user.
                                understanding the stoppage is more important than the psychology of the customer seeing you with an auger.


                                Now I'm being nice tonight because I know your wife is online.

                                she always is


                                I'm still having problems understanding how the sectional machines are always being sold on ebay all the time, like "new" condition almost always and finding other equipment like what I own is rare, and beat to hell and back and coming from a retired plumber, not one that's out of work or check the box for questioning why it's being sold.

                                hate to burst your bubble, but the k-60 is the most popular machine that ridgid sells of their main machines.

                                I can however see rooftop access with mechanicals like AC systems....that makes sense. But in the training I've received in drain cleaning always put the attitude at "always get that machine as close to the clog as you possibly can" to deliver torque to that attachment on the end of the cable.

                                exactly why taking a k-60 on the roof is much more efficient than the guys that run a cable up a ladder to try to get to the stoppage.

                                But for the record,


                                I don't clear drains with plungers, I don't undercharge for my work, I don't get on roofs when I can provide the customer with the needed cleanout access when I'm subjecting them to considerably higher charges by having to pull that toilet.

                                Crawl spaces do not apply when a main stack has to enter into that crawlspace, and a quick removal of the toilet *already* with cutting that stack and putting a cleanout in is the fix.

                                Leave the toilet installed next time, pull the panel out, carefully run that cable with the tee placed in the most favorable position to obtain access.

                                Everyone here so far keeps reinterating that a cleanout is the best method, why is everyone darting from the logic and doing it.

                                Sometimes I'm harder on my fellow plumbers than the customers, because if you ask a property owner why the plumber isn't doing his job....you then see why I mention these issues.

                                all i can say dunbar, is that you do it your way and i do it my way.

                                what works for you, doesn't work for me.

                                i doubt we would ever compete in the same market, but if you did come here, i hope your other businesses are as successful as mine is

                                once again there are more people coming into the forum praising the k-60 than any other machine out there. that's something i have no influence in their praise. i can lead them to the machine, but can't make them love it.

                                rick.
                                phoebe it is

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