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  • roof vent or pull toilet

    Which would you rather do on a slab house with no cleanout. Pull the toilet to snake the main or go from the roof vent to snake the main sewer? i have been pulling toilets for years, but that is always a pain. So i just ordered a new k-60 and im thinking on tackling them from the roof vent now.

  • #2
    Re: roof vent or pull toilet

    jh, welcome to the club

    you'll find that a 3''or 4'' vent is great for a main stoppage.

    i can still do it from a normal/ current 2'' vent with a reverse auger and a good 45 bend in it.

    in fact friday i had a 4'' line with only a 1.5'' c/o that i'm familiar with. the 1.5'' is off the lav c/o for 9' then 9-44' is 4''. knowing the layout i can thoroughly snake the roots via the 1.5''.

    this is done by knowing the layout with a camera and using the reverse auger to wind into the roots and remove them.

    the high speed cutting along with the easy way of knowing your cable lengths via 15' sections will make a difficult job simple.

    the k-60, it just doesn't get any better

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: roof vent or pull toilet

      In that situation I would rather go through the roof vent.Kind of hurts my back carrying that 1065 up a ladder though Of course I'm not serious about carrying the machine up a ladder I pipe from the vent to my machine below on the ground.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: roof vent or pull toilet

        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
        jh, welcome to the club

        you'll find that a 3''or 4'' vent is great for a main stoppage.

        i can still do it from a normal/ current 2'' vent with a reverse auger and a good 45 bend in it.

        in fact friday i had a 4'' line with only a 1.5'' c/o that i'm familiar with. the 1.5'' is off the lav c/o for 9' then 9-44' is 4''. knowing the layout i can thoroughly snake the roots via the 1.5''.
        Down here in the OC, we've 2" roof vents comin' out the ying yang. Still, I'll take that over pulling toilets any day. I can easily strainen out and squeeze down a 3" blade to fit down a 2 incher. As most of us here know, once the blades torque up and "unload", they open up to the diameter of the pipe (I think some refer to them as expandable) The trick sometimes is coming back through the 2" with a 3" or bigger ball of roots. That's always fun

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: roof vent or pull toilet

          Originally posted by plumber View Post
          It was always my policy to avoid roof top work with sewer machines when ever possible. Its just to easy for something to happen and get hurt. If there is a situation where someone has to take a heavy piece of equipment onto the roof and work then for saftey reasons that has just become a two man job.

          All it takes is one slip because one did not have the third hand available and a simple job just became a life long nightmare. Some guys are lucky and go a long long time taking chances and others lose a limb or worse in a split second at an early age. Its not worth it just so someone you may never see again can flush his fecal matter away.


          As a wise man once said...
          Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: roof vent or pull toilet

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by plumber
            It was always my policy to avoid roof top work with sewer machines when ever possible. Its just to easy for something to happen and get hurt. If there is a situation where someone has to take a heavy piece of equipment onto the roof and work then for saftey reasons that has just become a two man job.

            All it takes is one slip because one did not have the third hand available and a simple job just became a life long nightmare. Some guys are lucky and go a long long time taking chances and others lose a limb or worse in a split second at an early age. Its not worth it just so someone you may never see again can flush his fecal matter away.




            As a wise man once said...

            dunbar, how far did you dig to find a quote from plumber

            considering he is a rough plumber i doubt he has any experiance with drain cleaning.

            he hasn't checked in for well over a year and then that was only a post or 2.

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: roof vent or pull toilet

              Our policy was we only go on the roof once and if they didn't have a cleanout installed after that they could call someone else.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                AHHHHH so many good points I dont know where to start, First I prefer roof work over pulling a toilet any day, I have had older toilets that start to leak after resetting them and is always a hard situation to explain to a customer. This also depends on how comfortable you are on roofs, I am very comfortable and therefore would rather go on the roof, however I have not had a machine that would go through heavy blockages from the roof, hopefully the k 60 will remedy that.
                Which brings me to the next good point, if a customer does not have a clean out they need one, true. I dont think anyone will argue that. We seem to have a trend in our area were someone does not have a clean out the main line is dug up, a hole is punched in it and then a piece of metal is placed over the hole and a bag of cement is placed on top of it, has anyone else have this in there area. Personally I think this practice BS, the majority of the work of putting in a CO (the digging) has already been done and it makes no sense to not do one. I cant tell you how many times I have pulled roots from the same place were a hole was busted in a pipe where a clean out should have been placed.

                Any comments.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                  Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by plumber
                  It was always my policy to avoid roof top work with sewer machines when ever possible. Its just to easy for something to happen and get hurt. If there is a situation where someone has to take a heavy piece of equipment onto the roof and work then for saftey reasons that has just become a two man job.

                  All it takes is one slip because one did not have the third hand available and a simple job just became a life long nightmare. Some guys are lucky and go a long long time taking chances and others lose a limb or worse in a split second at an early age. Its not worth it just so someone you may never see again can flush his fecal matter away.



                  As a wise man once said...

                  dunbar, how far did you dig to find a quote from plumber

                  considering he is a rough plumber i doubt he has any experiance with drain cleaning.

                  he hasn't checked in for well over a year and then that was only a post or 2.

                  rick.


                  I have this statement bookmarked on my computer, because as soon as I joined I heard nothing but high praise for this fellow and his statements, the respect the forum members had for this guy.


                  You've obviously have had a change of heart, belittling his words now because he's no longer here?


                  To hear plumbers on roofs, isn't exactly a "normal" place, let alone carrying heavy equipment up on roofs.

                  I understand that in California that somewhere across the path of reasonable thinking, someone in the upper eschalons didn't think or warrant cleanouts on stacks. How in the hell that wasn't enforced all these years is a management problem, not a plumber's problem.

                  I see one "valid" reason for a plumber to be on a roof, and that's to put gem caps on the stacks to do a test.

                  When I did new construction we'd plumb-bob center of the stacks and cut the holes from underneath, the roofer was responsible for the stack boot. Can the plumber do roof boots? Of course, but who puts their hands on those products more.......roofers.

                  I despise pulling toilets to clear a drain as much as the next guy, but it's all but unheard of in this area for clearing a drain from a rooftop. That "plumber" that was on here has a strong, valid meaning to his words about the risks of taking on drain clogs from one's rooftop.

                  I'd be the first to open that wall at the base of that stack, get that damn cleanout in there like it's supposed to be and have that access there for the next time, and there will be a next time because there's good reason for the first time you are there; something's wrong with the piping system.

                  So to be argumentative for a minute,

                  Why can't you put in cleanouts in California? I don't buy the financial hardship since everyone is wealthy out there on average.

                  Open the wall, spend at the most, $100 on the rework and have that cleanout turned out so the equipment never leaves the ground, no one needs a ladder, customer is now in an improved situation that allows proper access to the piping system.


                  I do/upsell this all the time when it is warranted. I'm clearing drains by access where it belongs. If going on rooftops is a ploy to keep the next guy from easy access to the drain, something really wrong with holding the customer hostage in this way from allowing the property owner the given ability to rent a machine themselves and maybe try and tackle the job themselves.

                  I have to think on both sides of the fence because plumbers sometimes try to covet the dollar by instituting hardships to the property owner to keep the money rolling in. I win merit awards for giving people tons of options, whether I short myself the dollar or not. I'm respected heavily for caring, and that keeps the word of mouth working right on down the street where everyone knows the ropes with me.

                  Time for bologna and cheese.
                  Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                    Originally posted by pioneer1 View Post
                    AHHHHH so many good points I dont know where to start, First I prefer roof work over pulling a toilet any day, I have had older toilets that start to leak after resetting them and is always a hard situation to explain to a customer. This also depends on how comfortable you are on roofs, I am very comfortable and therefore would rather go on the roof, however I have not had a machine that would go through heavy blockages from the roof, hopefully the k 60 will remedy that.
                    Which brings me to the next good point, if a customer does not have a clean out they need one, true. I dont think anyone will argue that. We seem to have a trend in our area were someone does not have a clean out the main line is dug up, a hole is punched in it and then a piece of metal is placed over the hole and a bag of cement is placed on top of it, has anyone else have this in there area. Personally I think this practice BS, the majority of the work of putting in a CO (the digging) has already been done and it makes no sense to not do one. I cant tell you how many times I have pulled roots from the same place were a hole was busted in a pipe where a clean out should have been placed.

                    Any comments.


                    Comments would be that every time you did a roof drain cleaning job, you should of sold a cleanout install and stop the trips to the roof from that point on.

                    If you have employees, are you covered by the liability you pose on yourself by having someone climb a ladder and operate equipment from this position?

                    What about these homes with shaker roofs, copper gutters, slate roofs, aging asphalt , rubber roofs, anything that when you get on and something goes wrong, you're on the hook for the damage caused by a leak down the road.



                    Why aren't we as plumbers in this profession installing cleanouts every time there's no access? I don't like old toilet pulling either, but somewhere there's a main stack off that bath group where the plumbing is designed in a fashion to allow proper access.
                    Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                      One Story = Roof Vent, I avoid working inside whenever possible.

                      Two Story = Pull Commode, after probing for 5-10 minutes for a clean out.

                      Minimum 3" sewer vents here code enforced.

                      Lenny

                      Pronounced A-Bear Drain Care

                      I know, it doesn't make sense.


                      http://www.hebertdraincare.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                        My take is the first time we have to go on the roof it is an emergency and the owner may not have known they needed a cleanout. If they have a subsequent stoppage at a later date they are already on notice and if they decided not to install a cleanout they can call someone else.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                          IMO

                          Selling a cleanout install would not go over well. I guaranty 95% of my customers would say, "Well the last guy went on the roof"

                          They would not pay extra for something that 10 other companies have done from the roof.

                          This would give them a bad taste in their mouth, thinking I'm trying to up sell unnecessary work, and would not call me again.

                          I'd rather just pull the commode for homes with two story roofs and slate, or other easily breakable roofs. Its as effective, just a pain in the arse.

                          Lenny

                          Pronounced A-Bear Drain Care

                          I know, it doesn't make sense.


                          http://www.hebertdraincare.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                            Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
                            I have this statement bookmarked on my computer, because as soon as I joined I heard nothing but high praise for this fellow and his statements, the respect the forum members had for this guy.


                            You've obviously have had a change of heart, belittling his words now because he's no longer here?

                            you need to do more research as plumber and i didn't see eye to eye on most new technology. he was more of an old school plumber and i'm more of a new school technology.
                            so there's never been a change in heart. do the reading and you'll see my point.


                            To hear plumbers on roofs, isn't exactly a "normal" place, let alone carrying heavy equipment up on roofs.

                            so i guess roofers are the only guys qualified to work on a roof.

                            give me a roof over joist on 24'' centers running copper from the top down.

                            I understand that in California that somewhere across the path of reasonable thinking, someone in the upper eschalons didn't think or warrant cleanouts on stacks. How in the hell that wasn't enforced all these years is a management problem, not a plumber's problem.

                            cleanouts have always been required. finding them is another story. now on a crawl space, who wants to crawl under a house and release a c/o and then have to work in the muck?

                            I see one "valid" reason for a plumber to be on a roof, and that's to put gem caps on the stacks to do a test.

                            on many commercial jobs, the mechanical equipment is also on the flat roof. flashing's are part of our inspection too. sure the roofer would install them, but ultimately it's our responsibility to supply them.

                            When I did new construction we'd plumb-bob center of the stacks and cut the holes from underneath, the roofer was responsible for the stack boot. Can the plumber do roof boots? Of course, but who puts their hands on those products more.......roofers.

                            I despise pulling toilets to clear a drain as much as the next guy, but it's all but unheard of in this area for clearing a drain from a rooftop. That "plumber" that was on here has a strong, valid meaning to his words about the risks of taking on drain clogs from one's rooftop.

                            remember plumber was a rough-in guy. not a drain guy or a service guy. 2 totally different styles of work and knowledge.

                            I'd be the first to open that wall at the base of that stack, get that damn cleanout in there like it's supposed to be and have that access there for the next time, and there will be a next time because there's good reason for the first time you are there; somethings wrong with the piping system.

                            So to be argumentative for a minute,

                            Why can't you put in cleanouts in California? I don't buy the financial hardship since everyone is wealthy out there on average.

                            so because someone has money, doesn't mean they are willing to spend it more than the next guy.

                            i don't mind a safe roof. i don't do a 2 story roof via ladder. only by roof hatch.

                            Open the wall, spend at the most, $100 on the rework and have that cleanout turned out so the equipment never leaves the ground, no one needs a ladder, customer is now in an improved situation that allows proper access to the piping system.

                            show me any plumber that installs cleanouts for $100.


                            I do/upsell this all the time when it is warranted. I'm clearing drains by access where it belongs. If going on rooftops is a ploy to keep the next guy from easy access to the drain, something really wrong with holding the customer hostage in this way from allowing the property owner the given ability to rent a machine themselves and maybe try and tackle the job themselves.

                            i give them the options and the prices. sure a ground level c/o is the way to go. but in the immediate time they want a flushing toilet, not an empty wallet.

                            I have to think on both sides of the fence because plumbers sometimes try to covet the dollar by instituting hardships to the property owner to keep the money rolling in. I win merit awards for giving people tons of options, whether I short myself the dollar or not. I'm respected heavily for caring, and that keeps the word of mouth working right on down the street where everyone knows the ropes with me.

                            Time for bologna and cheese.
                            nobody spends less money than me on advertising. and i doubt that anyone 1 person has a data base of over 1500 customers with no advertising. so something is working on my end.

                            i don't take uneducated risk. i do roofs when it's safe to do it and in all the years, all i've ever lost was a blade that rolled off the roof.

                            seeing you don't own the proper equipment to access a roof safely, i suggest you stay on the ground.

                            rick.
                            phoebe it is

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: roof vent or pull toilet

                              I guess I'm a good salesman. I sell clean outs . Most of our homes lack them. I feel I've just done the customer a good service. And It ain't no $100. I'm with Dunbar on this one.
                              R.RTR. HERE ,ONLY GOES ON A ROOF WITH 2 MEN NOW! IT AIN'T CHEAP!
                              I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                              Comment

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