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  • #16
    Re: It finally happened to me

    Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
    I am pretty disappointed in my K-60, I am always jamming it up, it does not have the guts my drum has, its weak IMO.

    I am still working with it, but it takes alot of jumping around and running around, instead of focusing on the task at hand, which is to clean the drain.

    I feel like a clown running around watching the rear cable, watching the front cable, lifting off to feed, stopping to connect more cable, etc. Really slows me down and makes a mainline call a loss to me, can't make any money on it flat rate, have to do them hourly, its a pain to pull cable back, and go back in etc. Like I said, the fact I am able to stop the machine sucks, it has no eggs to clean a tough drain like a good drum machine does. IMO

    I think its gonna be just a roof vent machine, but I am now interested in what happened to you.

    Maybe I missed it, but how did it actually double back on you?
    LOL, it does take more time doesn't it? I think the intercore is the way to go, at least on the first cable. I've found if i'm really busy, it's just not worth it to break out the sectional and dick around with cables when I could be done and on to the next job. I do like it on the roof though, easier on the back but really, not that much faster. That being said, it's always cleared the line....
    Last edited by TomSV650; 04-20-2009, 01:15 AM.

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    • #17
      Re: It finally happened to me

      considering that in 3 years i've only used my 7500 1 time and my k-60 hundreds of times. i would say that the k-60 is a proven winner.

      i posted this thread to let others know that under the right/ wrong circumstances a cable can flip. the flip was my fault as i was going full bore on a heavy root infested line that i knew was bad as i had camered the line 2 weeks earlier. in fact the first 25' was so bad the camera wouldn't even pass to inspect the line.

      1 pass with the k-60 cleared it out like it was brand new.

      i got cocky while demo-ing the k-60 to plumber dave.

      the machine had more power than i needed as it was still winding the cable a good 8' back upstream and back to downstream. a total of 16' was back into the pipe and still a good 40' was down stream. of the 60' of cable i had connected, there was only a couple feet sticking out of the c/o.

      all in all the 1 cable that twisted is actually pretty easily salvageable.

      a simple cut and i can reuse the coupler and attach it back to the tight wind that is still there.

      the last 75' only required 1 pass to make it spotless and that's backed up by running my seesnake for dave to show him the results.

      sure i didn't expect to dig up a pipe yesterday, but in the hundreds of jobs i have under the belt with the k-60, i've only damaged 1- 15' section. and that was in styrene non directional area drain piping that was wasted.
      so this being the first sewer that i got stuck in, and i know why it happened, is a lot better than all the horror stories we read on the forum.

      i will be hard at it again tomorrow looking forward to getting back on the horse.

      hopefully this tread will keep others from digging a line due to user error.

      rick.
      Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 04-20-2009, 01:33 AM.
      phoebe it is

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      • #18
        Re: It finally happened to me

        I use both the K-60 and a drum it took a while to get used to using the k-60 and coming up with little tricks but mine has cleared things my drum got hung up on, and my drum is no slouch I have a General Maxi Rooter their biggest drum machine. The K-60 has scoured out the sides of the pipe something a drum does not do and let's be serious for a second the RPM's rock! way faster than a drum and it helps. And when we talk main side sewers we then need to usually go clean out some 2" branches if it was a complete back up and I switch to the smal cable with the same machine. But I do work getting the cable back compared to sitting on my bucket waiting with the drum machine. Point is I like them both and each has done things that saved me on certain jobs and that means a happy customer a check my way and I stay in business!
        Seattle Drain Service

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        • #19
          Re: It finally happened to me

          I have the feeling that this is the start of the king of all drum vs. sectional discussions. Feelings are hurt, darts are thrown, accusations made, etc. ;-)

          The question is when will this turn ugly. I already know some folks are just jabbing for fun, I can see their smiling faces as they post

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          • #20
            Re: It finally happened to me

            I say it takes a good person to admit when a mistake or problem occurs,
            he did not have to report the problem, no one would have know if he had not documented it and wrote about it,

            it is a lesson for ever one who does work on drains, that some days it just does not go right, even for a seasoned pro,

            most people regardless of the machine used, do not want to show the world when it goes bad,

            This would be a good post to refer to when the Home owner asks can I just rent a machine and do it my self?
            The other post some time ago, what had the three cables in the drain what was under the slab in the rental house would be a good one too,

            But again it shows what to look for and possibly keeping some one else from repeating the same set of events,

            As good as the machines are today, there is not a perfect machine or operator,
            some days $hit happens.

            I just want to thank Rick for the Honesty and the willing to show the good and the bad, of his efforts.

            I know most ever one that has done this for any length of time, probably has a few stories to tell, but most do not.

            Thanks Rick for your openness, some of Us do not do enough to have the experience of thousands of drains and by reporting things like this you help to teach us and let us gain from your experiences, Thanks,
            Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
            attributed to Samuel Johnson
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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            • #21
              I've told the story many times on the net

              But I was running a ridgid sectional, shot it through 2 foot of collapsed Orangeburg piping and the cable was not going to retrieve. I had wound into the septic tank because the owner gave the wrong location.


              The septic tank turned out to be almost 15' from the back of the building, 18' down to the top of the lid.


              That was a horrible feeling because up to that point that it was exposed, I felt that I was to blame for the incident.

              But seeing a large trac-hoe brought in and two guys working all day shelfing a hole that could of buried a small house in was more than uncomfortable.

              Seeing that cable attached to the hooks of the bucket and the guy wincing in the hole when the cable literally did not want to pull out of the opening of the tank, was horrible. I knew the cable was going to get destroyed. 2 sections were lost.

              This happened in the late 80's, and this guy to this day still thinks I charged him too much for almost 40 hours of my time that week between my attempts to open that drain along with replacing a toilet that I broke from flange since the bolts were impossible to reach on the right side of the toilet. He did say to replace it, then had a change of heart saying there was nothing wrong with it. ????

              I always felt that the extremely flexible, wide looped cable is what allowed me to easily go into the tank and not even feel resistance till it doubled up and knotted where there was no way in hell it was coming out. I could of damaged all the cables given the distance from the tank.

              What's interesting is since I've went to drum machines, I don't tear up cables or bend them as much. Possibly because I use innercore that acts like a hard stick with minimal flexibility through the line.

              I'm certainly not complaining and any of you that's been rodding drains over the years can attest to this:

              They are making those cables more and more flexible which is BS. I remember when I would buy a new 3/4" innercore cable, That cable would come out of the powerfeed almost 6-8 feet with minimal sag to the cable as it headed to the floor by it's own weight.

              Do that with a cable today and it's nothing like 10-12 years ago.

              I can't buy 1/4" open hook cable like back in the day that you could manage without doubling up on you between the machine and the drain opening.

              You just have to adjust to the flexibility, otherwise you're spending a bundle on cables as a result.
              Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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              • #22
                Re: It finally happened to me

                bhd, thank you for understanding the reasoning behind my posting of this thread

                it was meant to show and tell everyone that you can get in trouble even if you've been running the machine for 3 years.

                i appreciate your post explaining it to others

                too hot 100+ today to concrete the walk.

                all loaded and waiting for the cool spell.

                rick.
                phoebe it is

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                • #23
                  Re: It finally happened to me

                  Originally posted by Jay Mpls View Post
                  When a cable flips here the dig starts at 8' down outside of the house!
                  No kicking the dirt off with your shoe ; - )
                  Welcome to the club!
                  not being a a$$hole here. but what cable do you use? anything with a basement here is 8' deep here also. or more. i maybe an old dog but i'm trying to learn. thank you. breid

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                  • #24
                    Re: It finally happened to me

                    dunbar. people been telling me to "stop being retarded" for 64 years now. well we can all see how that's working. lol. breid

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                    • #25
                      Re: It finally happened to me

                      i would like to thank you for your post. also everyone else that has had something not turn out the way they desired and posted it. i'm sure i'm not the only one that is learning from your misfortune. i started when i was 4. i'm still learning. thank you. breid

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: It finally happened to me

                        I'll throw in my two pesos here:

                        I think it's true that the K-60 takes longer to use - sometimes. Surely, the higher speed must count for something.

                        I don't know of any sewer machine that won't sooner or later have a cable problem. I'd rather kink a sectional than a 3/4" 50 or 100 footer - it's a lot less damage.

                        It took me a while to get used to the idea of keeping the K-60 cable from binding. You simply don't put as much pressure on it while it's cutting.

                        I dread the day when I can't get the cable out. I hope it never happens, but we take a chance every time we put a machine into a drain.

                        The flexibility of the K-60's 7/8" cable makes it much easier to get around bends. It's a tradeoff that it can double back in a combo - although even that doesn't seem possible. (Obviously, it is, since it happened.) With a easy run on a building sewer either the K-60 or a drum machine will do the same job. At 60, I don't relish dragging a 240 pound machine up a set of basement stairs. I can do the K-60 easily.

                        I'm certainly not against drums, and I wish I had one. I wish I had room for one. Or two. Or three . . .

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: It finally happened to me

                          Thanks for the post AND pics. Pics help tell the story. What I appreciate is honesty and reason. Everyone here has an opinion of which equipment is best. Brands, types of cable, and... drum vs. sectional. We are talking about tools; different tools have different uses and everyone has their preference. An honest man can admit a mistake or shortcoming, none of us is perfect. I would never blindly buy something because "Rick said so", but he always gives reason and seems genuine in his belief in the product. Love the stories from the battlefield. Hope tomorrow goes easier Rick and Dave.

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                          • #28
                            Re: It finally happened to me

                            Originally posted by richinflorida View Post
                            Thanks for the post AND pics. Pics help tell the story. What I appreciate is honesty and reason. Everyone here has an opinion of which equipment is best. Brands, types of cable, and... drum vs. sectional. We are talking about tools; different tools have different uses and everyone has their preference. An honest man can admit a mistake or shortcoming, none of us is perfect. I would never blindly buy something because "Rick said so", but he always gives reason and seems genuine in his belief in the product. Love the stories from the battlefield. Hope tomorrow goes easier Rick and Dave.

                            thanks rich

                            i went there today and compacted the ditch and cemented the walk.

                            today was only 90 yesterday was 101

                            joey and i took dave and his wife out to dinner tonight.

                            got back in the action today with a miserable 6'' root stoppage and the k-60

                            sorry rich that joey broke your heart in that p.m with the k-60 not being for sale

                            it's like selling your kids

                            thanks again

                            rick.
                            phoebe it is

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                            • #29
                              Re: It finally happened to me

                              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                              thanks rich

                              i went there today and compacted the ditch and cemented the walk.

                              today was only 90 yesterday was 101

                              joey and i took dave and his wife out to dinner tonight.

                              got back in the action today with a miserable 6'' root stoppage and the k-60

                              sorry rich that joey broke your heart in that p.m with the k-60 not being for sale

                              it's like selling your kids

                              thanks again

                              rick.
                              So that's where they went.

                              Mark
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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                              • #30
                                Re: It finally happened to me

                                job completed.

                                i compacted the ditch and cemented the walk.

                                even managed to take dave and his wife to dinner

                                rick.




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                                Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 04-22-2009, 02:09 AM.
                                phoebe it is

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