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Do cable cutters cut or rip? prove it (data)

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  • Do cable cutters cut or rip? prove it (data)

    Question : will a 600 rpm hacksaw blade cut wet unsecured grasslike vegetation,or does it rip it-making these expensive to machine factory cutters overkill and a consumable people think they need? Or would a similar style device absent the teeth work (rip?) as well? (No offense meant to mfg."s ) Any video of a cable "cutting roots in a glass pipe?
    Absent that......I need convincing based on science/physics/not propaganda.
    Motown (chrysler is down, thats why the time to think about ...cutters?...
    Last edited by birmingplumb; 05-08-2009, 04:12 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Do cable cutters cut or rip? prove it (data)

    Originally posted by birmingplumb View Post
    Question : will a 600 rpm hacksaw blade cut wet unsecured grasslike vegetation,or does it rip it-making these expensive to machine factory cutters overkill and a consumable people think they need? Or would a similar style device absent the teeth work (rip?) as well? (No offense meant to mfg."s ) Any video of a cable "cutting roots in a glass pipe?
    Absent that......I need convincing based on science/physics/not propaganda.
    The cutters do both based on what they run into. A toothed blade will cut but mostly tear wet unsecured grass-like vegetation. A smooth edged cutter will not always cut a heavy root.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Do cable cutters cut or rip? prove it (data)

      I agree some of both some ripping some cutting.I dont think theres no one answer thats completely correct.It seems like the higher rpm machines would cut more than rip.On the same line of thinking feed rate should play a part as well.If you feed thru roots slowly it seems like there would be more cutting.Also a factor would be type of roots I know some are much easier cut and or rip out than others.I have no data to offer but very interesting subject.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Do cable cutters cut or rip? prove it (data)

        A little of both imo. I'm inclined to say the slower the blades turn, the more cutting vs. ripping is being done. Reason being, roots that I pullback are more often cut looking than ripped or shredded. Then again other times seems more ripped than cut. Doesn't matter much to me so long as the line is clean.

        As mentiened, the type of root/tree plays a factor. For instance, some roots are slick or snotty like. The Chinese Elm root secretes a slimy, slippery material that makes it difficult to really bite into and cut off with blades. Usually results in a semi clean line even after multiple passes.
        Last edited by Twicepipes; 05-08-2009, 07:09 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Do cable cutters cut or rip? prove it (data)

          Thanks, we need to get everybody in on this. The next questions,after a consensus being developed (both rip/cut)
          1.How did it enter
          2.What level of removal (percentage) is acceptable
          a. based on how tired the operator is?
          b. based on water flowing?
          c. based on a set patern of passes thru with different cutters
          d. based on time already spent
          3. Finally what is the best remedy and why
          a. cabeling once spearhead only
          1. followed by 2nd or 2nd and 3rd pass
          2. followed by copper sulfate treatment
          3. followed by water flush
          I am attempting to document a "standard" accepted by the many world class mechanics that remarkabley all hapen to be gracing this paticular site at this time in history. To squander the chance, would be foolish in my opinion,as I have been everywhere man, and the level of skill represented by the senior posters on this site is a very very special....and it must be preserved. Motown

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Do cable cutters cut or rip? prove it (data)

            Originally posted by birmingplumb View Post
            Thanks, we need to get everybody in on this. The next questions,after a consensus being developed (both rip/cut)
            1.How did it enter
            2.What level of removal (percentage) is acceptable
            a. based on how tired the operator is?
            b. based on water flowing?
            c. based on a set patern of passes thru with different cutters
            d. based on time already spent
            3. Finally what is the best remedy and why
            a. cabeling once spearhead only
            1. followed by 2nd or 2nd and 3rd pass
            2. followed by copper sulfate treatment
            3. followed by water flush
            I am attempting to document a "standard" accepted by the many world class mechanics that remarkabley all hapen to be gracing this paticular site at this time in history. To squander the chance, would be foolish in my opinion,as I have been everywhere man, and the level of skill represented by the senior posters on this site is a very very special....and it must be preserved. Motown
            You got too much time on Your hands! Go out and cut,not rip the grass
            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Do cable cutters cut or rip? prove it (data)

              Originally posted by birmingplumb View Post
              Thanks, we need to get everybody in on this. The next questions,after a consensus being developed (both rip/cut)
              1.How did it enter
              2.What level of removal (percentage) is acceptable
              a. based on how tired the operator is?
              b. based on water flowing?
              c. based on a set patern of passes thru with different cutters
              d. based on time already spent
              3. Finally what is the best remedy and why
              a. cabeling once spearhead only
              1. followed by 2nd or 2nd and 3rd pass
              2. followed by copper sulfate treatment
              3. followed by water flush
              I am attempting to document a "standard" accepted by the many world class mechanics that remarkabley all hapen to be gracing this paticular site at this time in history. To squander the chance, would be foolish in my opinion,as I have been everywhere man, and the level of skill represented by the senior posters on this site is a very very special....and it must be preserved. Motown
              Who cares if it cuts or rips, it's the same as if you scrunch or fold, both get the job done.

              I use an auger first followed by a 4" cutter.

              When I first started using a camera I made the mistake of useing a 4" cutter then putting the camera in and the pipe was so clean I could not find where the roots were getting in.

              I know of guys who only use 2½" cutters and I think that is ripping the customers of as you are getting paid to clear the drain, although that being said the drain is compromised already and should be repaired.
              After I have been back to a drain two or three times I strongly recomend that the drain should be repaired correctly.

              What does a copper silphate treatment do?
              Wouldn't it just wash down the drain and how would it get the roots on the top.
              Wouldn't you use RootX !!!

              Simon

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Do cable cutters cut or rip? prove it (data)

                Originally posted by Some Day Plumbing View Post
                Who cares if it cuts or rips, it's the same as if you scrunch or fold, both get the job done.

                I use an auger first followed by a 4" cutter.

                When I first started using a camera I made the mistake of useing a 4" cutter then putting the camera in and the pipe was so clean I could not find where the roots were getting in.

                I know of guys who only use 2½" cutters and I think that is ripping the customers of as you are getting paid to clear the drain, although that being said the drain is compromised already and should be repaired.
                After I have been back to a drain two or three times I strongly recomend that the drain should be repaired correctly.

                What does a copper silphate treatment do?
                Wouldn't it just wash down the drain and how would it get the roots on the top.
                Wouldn't you use RootX !!!

                Simon
                I never had much luck with root X. I set a test pipe up and flushed it down it went out about 15 FT. filled the pipe with foam for about 5 FT. then it stopped I next tried pushing an applicator line down the line. foam never reached very high up maybe 2". I only recommend it for when the roots are very close to the house maybe 10 to 15 FT. I have recommended putting in copper sulfate before I get there if the water is standing but still going down slow so it can soak the roots. It seems to keep the line open longer but it is just a waste if it cant reach the top. As to cutting or ripping I believe it depends on the cutter a spear or retriever rips when the cable wraps up the roots and pulls them down from the top and my next two passes with progressively larger blade cutters cuts the roots. I too hate it when a customer tells me the last guy just made one pass with a 2 1/2" cutter in a 4" to 6" line I keep going till I get a cutter as big as the pipe down.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Do cable cutters cut or rip? prove it (data)

                  large roots get cut while smaller roots and bundles get torn.

                  picture a pipe with a pony tail and a pipe with a crew cut.

                  the pony tail will get tangled and then ripped out.

                  while the line with a crew cut will have to be cut as there is not enough to catch and rip.

                  now throw in a jetter and you can add pulverized or shredded.

                  any way you cut it and get it out of the flow is acceptable.

                  the more you get out, the better you cleaned it. not just cleared it.

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Do cable cutters cut or rip? prove it (data)

                    Wow! many great replies,leading to several more issues worth discussing.
                    I will post a new thread or 2 based on them.
                    Tree Idententification-(weeping willow-told to keep the truck in drive if I see one on the property ect.
                    Root x and foam
                    Will a jetters alone work-followed by a camera to "check results"
                    I welded 1000 pipes before I took my first job-I am built that way-I had to experiment every way-change the 5 variable many times on same application-find perfect setup and technique for perfect weld-took years due to several procedures need to know-to enter field with 100 percent total confidence and little if any chance of imbaresment-calling the weld booth my test lab. I am attempting to apply the same degree of effort toward the art of drain cleaning,and since I am 58 and not 30, I will need your input to develop the perfect standard and so far I am humbled by the responses. Thanks and God Bless This Forum,the hard working members and their families.
                    Motown

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Do cable cutters cut or rip? prove it (data)

                      there are literally hundreds of pictures and discussions on drain cleaning on this forum.

                      get some sleep and read chapters 1-3. the quiz will be monday morning.

                      open book. bring a #2 pencil and pack a lunch. you'll be here for a while

                      rick.
                      phoebe it is

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Do cable cutters cut or rip? prove it (data)

                        I agree; who cares cut or rip, so long as it removes.

                        Honestly, as most here know about my opinions, I'd say forget trying to fine tune techniquie with a cable anyway; buy a jetter, it's better. Put your efforts into learning to use the superior tool.
                        This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

                        Comment

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