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  • #16
    Re: Drum Counter?

    Originally posted by cpw View Post
    breid used the calculation for the circumference of a circle, which is pi times the diameter. The basic problem is that the cable resting on the outside of the drum is going to be longer than the cable resting on the inside of the drum. On each revolution you won't know whether the cable is coming from the inside or outside; so there could be a relatively big difference based on where the cable is coming from.

    A while ago someone posted a simple trick they used by just marking the cable with pipe dope. Maybe something more permanent like multicolored electrical tape would work. Using 3 colors, and 10 foot increments, you could get a about 100 feet marked out.
    Thanks, what breid was saying makes sense now that it's in "lamens plumbers" terms.

    J.C.

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    • #17
      Re: Drum Counter?

      Originally posted by Ace Sewer View Post
      wasn't there a prototype of something like this on a 7500 at the roundup?
      I do not know what Ridgid did at the round up but I have seen many prototypes of footage counters for drum machines in the years I been doing this. Most fail due to the nature of the cable being to rough on them.
      Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
      A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
      Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
      Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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      • #18
        Re: Drum Counter?

        JC Paint the cable you start a new trend

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Drum Counter?

          Won't work because the cable is independent of the drum rotation. The drum can spin with no cable coming in or out and this would throw off the readings.
          Buy cheap, buy twice.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Drum Counter?

            Originally posted by Clipper City Plumber View Post
            why not just paint marks on the cable. I ve never liked drum machines only sectional.
            Originally posted by Clipper City Plumber View Post
            JC Paint the cable you start a new trend
            i painted cables for years and had decent results. problem is it's difficult to stay on top of the paint and it will eventually wear off.

            i did every 10' marked as red/10, white,20', blue/30', yellow/40', green 50'.

            then repeated again.

            this is what makes a sectional much more accurate. the couplings are a set measurement. the seesnake is now dialed in to plus or minus 1% so i can now easily duplicate the footage.

            renee from ridgid did make a very interesting prototype footage counter and installed it on the 7500.

            i loved it unfortunately contrary to all your beliefs, i'm not the decision maker we all have equal input and if we all ask, we usually get what we ask for just look at the mini toilet cam that we asked for

            here is the concept of the footage counter.

            the inner drum will rotate when the cable is drawn in or out. that is where the footage is calculated from.

            i actually attempted to pursue my own counter system, until ridgid jumped on the project. i was thinking upon the lines of embedding some form of radio frequency i.d. into the cable inner core. not sure if it was feasible but sounded good

            i don't think ridgid dropped the idea yet. i think it's just on the back burner

            in the mean time, go out and buy 5 cans of spray paint and clean off the cable real good. mark a 1' section every 10' and stay on top of the paint marks so you don't lose them.

            hopefully with enough people on the forum asking for it, it will come to life.

            of course you drummers can always go to sectional and be set

            hope i didn't spill the beans

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Drum Counter?

              Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
              The "eye" could possible be mounted to count the cable revolutions out of the autofeed.

              Got to be made durable though.

              J.C.
              Anyone catch this? If possible, they could even make the eye quickly removable from a durable steel clamp.

              The eye to reader system is even wireless.

              J.C.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Drum Counter?

                Well I run with two 50 footers plus my 10 foot anchor. Now all you need to do is put a healthy kink in your cable every 10 feet. Then you would be able to keep count.

                Ridgid also had a cable counter on the Model 1500 units to help the drain cleaner to keep track how many sections he went in. I do not know if they still do that or not. but all my units has or had them on there.
                Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Drum Counter?

                  I just eye it up and guesstimate.


                  When most of the cable is out I count how many wraps I have left in the (open) reel to figure the distance. The reel is 6 ft around x 8 wraps left in the reel, I have 102 ft out. Inaccurate yes, and even less accurate the less cable I have out, but gives me a good enough idea.

                  Not able to do with enclosed drums.

                  For shorter distances I just pull out 2 ft at a time to measure.

                  I'll also tape it at the point of entry, tighten down the feeder, pull the cable out dead, and stretch it out to measure.

                  All measurements are approximate, if the customer wants accuracy the video is necessary.

                  Seems to me that any counter would be inaccurate because the cable is just slipping between the feeder wheels.

                  It would be a nice feature if they could perfect one though.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Drum Counter?

                    Originally posted by HebertDrainCare View Post
                    I just eye it up and guesstimate.


                    When most of the cable is out I count how many wraps I have left in the (open) reel to figure the distance. The reel is 6 ft around x 8 wraps left in the reel, I have 102 ft out. Inaccurate yes, and even less accurate the less cable I have out, but gives me a good enough idea.

                    Not able to do with enclosed drums.

                    For shorter distances I just pull out 2 ft at a time to measure.

                    I'll also tape it at the point of entry, tighten down the feeder, pull the cable out dead, and stretch it out to measure.

                    All measurements are approximate, if the customer wants accuracy the video is necessary.

                    Seems to me that any counter would be inaccurate because the cable is just slipping between the feeder wheels.

                    It would be a nice feature if they could perfect one though.
                    Your post reminded me of this one job I had. I was not able to get passed this one spot. So I tapped my cable and pulled it all out and measured from the end of the cutter to the tape. It was 80' I guesstimated 75'. Now in this town I was in they take responsibility from the sidewalk on to their sewer. Pacing off 80 feet put me at the curb if the line runs perfectly straight. I offered the home owner and the village to locate that spot with a radio transmitter so there is no question about where the rod was stopping. they said no just wrap it up. A week later I get a bill for $4800 from the village. I call them and ask them what the heck? The village official told me they dug up the parkway and found the blockage was 60 feet back towards the house, and the line was full of roots. I then asked him did anyone locate the problem spot. I told them I offered to locate the line for them when i was there. So they sent out their own guy and traced the sewer it went out the back then wrapped around the far side of the house. There was a break in the pipe at 80 feet which happened to be where my rod was stopping and about 60 feet from the street.
                    Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                    A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                    Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                    Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Drum Counter?

                      I had something similar happen to a contractor I did a job for.

                      Recommended the camera, gave approximate footage, he did not accept job.

                      Weeks later he called me asking where the problem was because he was there with a crew digging up the front yard based on my footage and could not find the pipe.

                      He found it eventually without my help as he wanted me to do it for free.

                      On my invoices I write the word "approximately" in front of all measurements.

                      And "recommend video pipe inspection before repair to locate and verify condition of the pipe" on any invoices where problems are noted.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Drum Counter?

                        Originally posted by HebertDrainCare View Post
                        I had something similar happen to a contractor I did a job for.

                        Recommended the camera, gave approximate footage, he did not accept job.

                        Weeks later he called me asking where the problem was because he was there with a crew digging up the front yard based on my footage and could not find the pipe.

                        He found it eventually without my help as he wanted me to do it for free.

                        On my invoices I write the word "approximately" in front of all measurements.

                        And "recommend video pipe inspection before repair to locate and verify condition of the pipe" on any invoices where problems are noted.
                        I always write on my invoices approximately as well. Also if they decline me locating the problem spot I put that in writing as well. Back then when I had that issue there was no cameras out yet. But did have the old tape on transmitter.
                        Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                        A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                        Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                        Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Drum Counter?

                          I use the auto feed and count by hand on the cable as I guide it in.
                          Sometimes when getting into some serious chopping things slip and it's hard to estimate in that case I'll recount on the retrieve.

                          When I cite a distance to a problem area the camera usually agrees on distance within a foot. So accuracy with hand estimating is fine with me...

                          I don't see a need for a counter.
                          411 Plumb Appliance Stimulus Package

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                          • #28
                            Re: Drum Counter?

                            Originally posted by HebertDrainCare View Post
                            I had something similar happen to a contractor I did a job for.

                            Recommended the camera, gave approximate footage, he did not accept job.

                            Weeks later he called me asking where the problem was because he was there with a crew digging up the front yard based on my footage and could not find the pipe.

                            He found it eventually without my help as he wanted me to do it for free.

                            On my invoices I write the word "approximately" in front of all measurements.

                            And "recommend video pipe inspection before repair to locate and verify condition of the pipe" on any invoices where problems are noted.
                            Exactly why I don't don't locate for free or tell them precisely where the problem area is. Hell, even if I have to break out the probe, it's strictly to satisfy my curiousity. If they want something more official, there's gonna be a charge. The words "suspect", "possible", "recommend" and "approx" I always use on my invoices. As you pointed out, some customers want you to do the leg work for free so that they can DIT (do it themself)

                            As far as the counter goes, the only thing I see that would work is....well....my idea.
                            Last edited by Twicepipes; 06-03-2009, 01:31 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Drum Counter?

                              Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                              Your post reminded me of this one job I had. I was not able to get passed this one spot. So I tapped my cable and pulled it all out and measured from the end of the cutter to the tape. It was 80' I guesstimated 75'. Now in this town I was in they take responsibility from the sidewalk on to their sewer. Pacing off 80 feet put me at the curb if the line runs perfectly straight. I offered the home owner and the village to locate that spot with a radio transmitter so there is no question about where the rod was stopping. they said no just wrap it up.

                              A week later I get a bill for $4800 from the village. I call them and ask them what the heck? The village official told me they dug up the parkway and found the blockage was 60 feet back towards the house, and the line was full of roots.

                              I then asked him did anyone locate the problem spot. I told them I offered to locate the line for them when i was there.
                              So they sent out their own guy and traced the sewer it went out the back then wrapped around the far side of the house.
                              There was a break in the pipe at 80 feet which happened to be where my rod was stopping and about 60 feet from the street.
                              Was it a old septic tank that was bypassed?

                              What happened to the 4800.00 bill?
                              (The Low Spark of Steel-Toed Boys)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Drum Counter?

                                Originally posted by Drip Trip View Post
                                Was it a old septic tank that was bypassed?

                                What happened to the 4800.00 bill?
                                The house was always on the city sewer. No idea why it was ran the way they did it. The city dropped the charges once I asked him if they bothered to locate the 80 foot spot. He realized it was their own fault for assuming 80 foot ran straight out.
                                Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                                A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                                Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                                Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                                Comment

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