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  • #16
    Re: Jetter king jetters?

    ron, i don't think it matters much with a gearbox, but i would think that a gearbox adds a little resistance. probably not enough to worry about. belts and pulleys probably less than a gearbox.

    what matters is the power source. an electric motor horsepower is stronger hp for hp. that's why when you look at the power requirement for pumps, they will rate it in ebhp. electric braking horsepower. then add about 30% for a gas powered unit.

    diesel actually requires less as they have more torque than gas and electric.

    propane puts out less btu's than gasoline, but more than natural gas. so a propane powered engine will put out less than a gas powered identical engine. what i do see is they dropped the psi rating on the jetter jake mentioned for the propane unit.

    but remember that the gpm is a direct result of the rpm. the pump puts out x amount of water per rotation. it's the psi that steals the h.p. as this is what puts a load on the engine. the pump will still output the full gpm at the ma rated speed, but as the pressure goes up, the hp demand in increased. at a certain point the engine will either stall or not reach the rpm required to deliver the full gpm.

    picture an empty truck and a full truck going up a hill. at certain point the full truck will slow down as more load is applied. with 25hp. you don't have the option to just give it more gas. it's already screaming

    rick.
    phoebe it is

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    • #17
      Re: Jetter king jetters?

      I have stated this before but they seem like they know what they are talking about and to a point they do, but after the sale is made the customer service drops off to none. Wrong size nozzles, charge for the right ones after the fact etc etc. I also had the specs changed as mine was built and I can tell you there is no way with that size motor you can get the 8.5 gpm at 3500 psi, more like 8 gpm at 2800 psi max. And with all that 300 feet of 3/8 hose the pressure will actually be around 2400 unless you downsize the nozzles to achieve the higher psi then your gpm will drop off to 5-6 gpm. Then when you call them they will say it's your hose is too small but it's the one they sold you with those over rated specs.
      Last edited by Cuda; 01-02-2011, 01:22 PM.
      Seattle Drain Service

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      • #18
        Re: Jetter king jetters?

        Oh Yea good to see you JR! I have wondered how you have been doing. I was going to call you about some info on Pipe lining equipment as I have narrowed my selection down and was planning on buying the LMK ind. system.
        Seattle Drain Service

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        • #19
          Re: Jetter king jetters?

          Customer service is one of the things I fear about going with comapnies I never dealt with before. For that reason I really like to stick with comapnies I know as for a 8 GPM @ 3000 PSI machine I still like the General J-3080 machine.

          Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
          A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
          Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
          Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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          • #20
            Re: Jetter king jetters?

            Originally posted by Cuda View Post
            Oh Yea good to see you JR! I have wondered how you have been doing. I was going to call you about some info on Pipe lining equipment as I have narrowed my selection down and was planning on buying the LMK ind. system.
            Well, I sure hope they would stand behind what they say. They sound pretty confident on the phone about the specs. Regardless, I need something I can run indoors as the amount of industrial and commercial cleaning has picked up drastically. In addition we don't want to have to drag the big trailer jet to every lining project. Most times the heavy cleaning is done with the big jet and then when we go back for the liner install we just need to flush away small amounts of debris and TP. This cold weather here in the Midwest is really putting a cramp in out style! I need to move to Texas!

            Cuda, I have some pretty strong opinions about which lining systems are better than others after some ups and downs. Give me a call to discuss things when you get really serious.
            www.firstresponsedrain.com

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            • #21
              Re: Jetter king jetters?

              Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
              Customer service is one of the things I fear about going with comapnies I never dealt with before. For that reason I really like to stick with comapnies I know as for a 8 GPM @ 3000 PSI machine I still like the General J-3080 machine.

              It is true Ron but the LP option is what has pushed me this way. I have been thinking about the General 3080 for a long time but the ability to run indoors is a big deal for us. Don't get me wrong, I do like customer service so I figure if I can't get it from them I can take it to local shops that service motors and pumps. I have already talked to a guy locally who specializes in LP powered equipment and Udor pumps have parts readily available. The 3080 is a great machine for sure but very expensive too! A hose reel and hose would still be needed at additional cost. The LP Brute comes with it for the same price. Maybe I will invite one of their guys to discuss their products on the forum?
              www.firstresponsedrain.com

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              • #22
                Re: Jetter king jetters?

                So General 3080 has a 20 HP Honda. They say 8gpm @3000, is this not acurate either? Seems like 5 extra HP has to count for something?

                I better get this hammered out asap!!! I'm not gonna pay for something that isnt gonna perform as needed!
                www.firstresponsedrain.com

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                • #23
                  Re: Jetter king jetters?

                  Originally posted by jrsaltz View Post
                  So General 3080 has a 20 HP Honda. They say 8gpm @3000, is this not acurate either? Seems like 5 extra HP has to count for something?

                  I better get this hammered out asap!!! I'm not gonna pay for something that isnt gonna perform as needed!
                  Thats why I think the gearing has something to do with it. If you use a proper gear ratio, you can get more torque out of a smaller motor, to turn a larger pump.
                  Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                  A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                  Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                  Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Jetter king jetters?

                    http://www.jettersnorthwest.com/html...e-_8_5gpm.html


                    Here are some more specs on it. It also has a reduced gearbox. It uses a 25 HP Subaru vs. the Honda that comes on the Gas version. I'm going to call them tomorrow and ask for some video showing the thing in action if they have any. They said they have a whole gauge set up to test flows and pressures.

                    Let me know what questions I should ask and I will report back so you all can help mr make the right decision.
                    www.firstresponsedrain.com

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                    • #25
                      Re: Jetter king jetters?

                      Well converting a gas engine to run propane is not all that hard. Like I said I plan on doing my Spartan Trailer jet. Now that I been reading some of the conversion kit sites, I might even do my cart jetter as well. They say you will get the same HP out of the motor using propane.
                      Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                      A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                      Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                      Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Jetter king jetters?

                        But remember propane is not as explosive as gas and doesn't make the same HP. So I don't think you will get 25 hp out of a converted gasoline motor. If the 25hp motor is designed as a 25hp propane motor not a conversion then the 25hp rating may be accurate. Edit I should not have used the word explosive it is BTU's . Propane has a higher octane rating but doesn't make the same amount of heat as gas. And you need to alter the compression ratio to get the benifts of the higher octane rating to make the same HP. Thats why I said a converted gas engine vs. one made to be a propane engine.
                        Last edited by Cuda; 01-02-2011, 06:48 PM. Reason: wrong wording
                        Seattle Drain Service

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Jetter king jetters?

                          power = pressure x volumetric flow rate

                          in the units we are used to seeing, hp=(psi*gpm)/1714

                          so 8.5*3500/1714= 17 hp

                          some is lost to pump efficiency, so you need more than the formula says, some also to driving the gearbox, etc. find it hard to believe 25 would not do it though.
                          This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Jetter king jetters?

                            I thought / 1750 was for hydraulic, and for an industrial gas engine the number was 1250?
                            Seattle Drain Service

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                            • #29
                              Re: Jetter king jetters?

                              it has nothing to do with any engine or hydraulic or anything; it's just physics; power= flow x pressure. the 1714 is just a consequense of using psi and gpm and horsepower for the units in which you express power, flow, and pressure.
                              This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Jetter king jetters?

                                This is off the General Pump web site faq

                                Q. How do I calculate the horsepower required for my system?
                                A. The horsepower required for operation is based on three variables: discharge volume, pressure and drive type. The formula for the calculation is H=(P*G)/C.
                                Where: H = Horsepower
                                P = Pressure in PSI
                                G = Flow in GPM
                                C = Drive constant:
                                Hydraulic C = 1714
                                Electric C = 1460
                                Gasoline C = 1250 (Industrial grade)
                                Gasoline C = 1100 (Standard grade)
                                Diesel C = Supplied by Engine Mfr.
                                Seattle Drain Service

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