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  • #31
    Re: Jetter king jetters?

    so basically it sounds like the set up can run according to the specs?
    www.firstresponsedrain.com

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    • #32
      Re: Jetter king jetters?

      Originally posted by jrsaltz View Post
      so basically it sounds like the set up can run according to the specs?
      Yes it will be real close the 3/8 hose x 300 ft will be the piece of the puzzle that makes it go down a few hundred lbs. or maybe .5-1 gallon difference. Just order the optional nitrous kit for those little times that need the boost. :P
      Last edited by Cuda; 01-02-2011, 10:19 PM.
      Seattle Drain Service

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      • #33
        Re: Jetter king jetters?

        Originally posted by Cuda View Post
        This is off the General Pump web site faq

        Q. How do I calculate the horsepower required for my system?
        A. The horsepower required for operation is based on three variables: discharge volume, pressure and drive type. The formula for the calculation is H=(P*G)/C.
        Where: H = Horsepower
        P = Pressure in PSI
        G = Flow in GPM
        C = Drive constant:
        Hydraulic C = 1714
        Electric C = 1460
        Gasoline C = 1250 (Industrial grade)
        Gasoline C = 1100 (Standard grade)
        Diesel C = Supplied by Engine Mfr.
        I'm not sure what they are doing there. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. A pump does not care what is turning it's shaft, how could it? It must be some sort of compensation for the way mfrs rate motors.
        This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

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        • #34
          Re: Jetter king jetters?

          cuda has the right formula.

          an electric motor is what the horsepower rating is based on.

          take a 2hp. electric and a 2hp.gas. the electric will out power the gas hands down.

          remember that the electrics torque curve is based on the full speed output of the motor. while the gas ones are based on a given rpm.

          gas is typically sized 30% larger to match the electric output.

          look at any pump manufacturers website and then compare the specs in h.p from a pump that runs on an electric motor and one that runs on gas.

          same capacity pumps, different hp requirements for gas and electric.

          1100 is a good rule of thumb for gas engines.

          industrial diesels engines can push 1700+ for the multiplier figures.

          rick.
          phoebe it is

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          • #35
            Re: Jetter king jetters?

            And just to add more confusion why don't we get rid of that gear reduction and instead of 1400 rpm we add a belt system and run it at 1700 rpm and we might gain 1 gpm and 500 psi on it. Sure the pump will wear out faster but we didn't have to buy a 28 hp motor. Can't do this on all pumps but I have been noticing 2 different specs on a lot of them depending on how they are set up.
            Last edited by Cuda; 01-04-2011, 12:56 AM.
            Seattle Drain Service

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            • #36
              Re: Jetter king jetters?

              um, so, at the risk of descending into petty bickering, in other words

              Originally posted by Ace Sewer View Post
              It must be some sort of compensation for the way mfrs rate motors.
              and a 'torque curve' is by definition a graph of torque vs rpm. there is no such thing as a torque curve based on a single rpm. that would be a single data point, not a curve

              and if you up pump rpm on a fixed displacement pump, you up gpm. and thru same hose/nozzle/whatever downstream restriction you up pressure as well, so you up hp requirement, not lower it.
              Last edited by Ace Sewer; 01-04-2011, 02:24 AM.
              This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

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              • #37
                Re: Jetter king jetters?

                I just bought a general pump that the seller had on a gear reduction that was sold to me as 5.5 gpm and 3000 psi. Driven at around 1450 rpm. I added a electric clutch belt drive and I now get 7.5 gpm at 3500 psi. The general site specs had both specs for the same pump depending on what rpm it was driven at. But I can totally agree that the HP (Demand) must increase. I don't know if the demand would exceed the motor specs in my prior post and I didn't notice them on the pump I just did because I am driving it with a 67hp industrial diesel motor, so I got power to spare lol.
                Seattle Drain Service

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                • #38
                  Re: Jetter king jetters?

                  Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                  jake, i did speak to them a while back before i bought my us jetter. the issue i had was they claim the 25hp efi puts out a lot more than 25hp to power those specs.

                  i think using propane will down rate the h.p compared to gas. and of course natural gas will be even less power.

                  better have them put the actual specs in writing as 8.5 gpm at 3500# requires more than 25h.p.

                  rick.
                  Hello All, first time here at the forum. I am the design guy for all the machines here at Jetters Northwest and wanted to answer some of the questions and comments I've seen about Horse Power!
                  Our propane Jetter is a factory made propane engine, not a conversion. the 25 HP output is a rating for propane fuel, it will loose power if used with Natural Gas. (gpm x psi)/1460=electric brake hp. we use this calculation as a starting point and add sevice factor % from there. Different brands of engines use different ratings but the new standard of SAE J1349 is not being properly used by all makes and models. for instance we have seen near identical performance from Honda's New GX-660 (Honda rates it as 21 HP), Subaru's 25 HP and 25 hp LP and Kohlers 30 HP. All different factory ratings, same performance results. I assure you, all our machines perform as advertized with some variation possible for high altitudes.

                  Thanks for letting me give my 2 cents! and thanks to Jake at First Response for the invite.

                  John

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                  • #39
                    Re: Jetter king jetters?

                    John welcome to the Ridgid Forums. I have a question. Does using a gear reduction make a difference in how the jetter performs? Is there an advantage to using gear reduction to the pump verses direct linking the pump to the motor?
                    Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                    A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                    Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                    Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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                    • #40
                      Re: Jetter king jetters?

                      Originally posted by Cuda View Post
                      I have stated this before but they seem like they know what they are talking about and to a point they do, but after the sale is made the customer service drops off to none. Wrong size nozzles, charge for the right ones after the fact etc etc. I also had the specs changed as mine was built and I can tell you there is no way with that size motor you can get the 8.5 gpm at 3500 psi, more like 8 gpm at 2800 psi max. And with all that 300 feet of 3/8 hose the pressure will actually be around 2400 unless you downsize the nozzles to achieve the higher psi then your gpm will drop off to 5-6 gpm. Then when you call them they will say it's your hose is too small but it's the one they sold you with those over rated specs.
                      I see your in Seattle, I'm not sure what your comments on service are directed to but I invite you to come in and see us to talk about it. It looks like we sold you some components and not a complete machine? I will be happy to show you our Big Brute 8.5 GPM 4000 PSI running at spec!
                      Seeing is believing

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                      • #41
                        Re: Jetter king jetters?

                        Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                        John welcome to the Ridgid Forums. I have a question. Does using a gear reduction make a difference in how the jetter performs? Is there an advantage to using gear reduction to the pump verses direct linking the pump to the motor?
                        The gearbox only transmits the hp to the pump, no compensation needs to be made. the main benefit of using a gearbox (or belt drive) is reducing the speed of the pump for longer life and cooler running temps. also the larger pumps, 6 gpm and up, are not even made as direct drive units. the other benefit of the gear drive for jetters is that the longer slower stroke makes for alot harder pulsation when you disable 1 of your cylinders. We use gear drive pumps on all models mostly for those reasons.

                        John

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                        • #42
                          Re: Jetter king jetters?

                          yes, and a gearbox gives you more torque too, which might be useful in some situations, like if you run idled down with a smaller setup sometimes. but I still like direct drive for
                          - more compact
                          - less expensive (no gearbox, one lovejoy)
                          - less to break (though if you can kill a gearbox, you ARE special)
                          - idiot proof shafting alignment (lovejoy spiders are cheap, but a pain to replace)

                          pump life.... the pump is $400, water seals $60. buy a spare and kill the thing if you can. makes more sense if we are talking about bigger machines, but at $400 the pump is disposable.

                          all goes out the window over 5.5gpm/4kpsi, but that does what I need.
                          This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Jetter king jetters?

                            If your talking lovejoy couplings you must have a Giant pump? I dont think the gearbox takes any more space than giants coupling flange. I will take the better pulsation if my Warthog nozzle is stuck and I need my hose to bounce.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Jetter king jetters?

                              no.. ar pumps; the rkv comes in a 5.5/4000 direct drive, thats the one I like. don't know giant.

                              pulse... don't own it so can't comment, never needed it. probably like a footvalve for me; never had it so don't miss it, would probably love it if i ever tried it and wonder how I did without it.
                              This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

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