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Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

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  • #31
    Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

    If I were a licensed plumber and my strongest main line machine was a 300 and I had to get the line open I would have sold probably over 100 unnecessary dig jobs in the last 3 1/2 years as my Eel 1.25" cable has got the job done when my 300 failed.


    If the 1.25" fails then only is it time to dig.
    Last edited by AssTyme; 09-22-2013, 12:01 AM.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

      Originally posted by AssTyme View Post
      Just what type of work are you going after ??? Robbing grandma of her life savings on an unnecessary dig ???

      Yeah maybe your customer was happy, some people just don't know any better
      CLEANOUTS
      A cleanout is required at the upper end of every drainage pipe with the following exceptions: 1) Horizontal branches less than 5' long, unless they serve sinks or urinals.
      2) Pipes which slope 18° or more from the horizontal.
      3) Pipes above the first story.
      4) See the SEWER section for City cleanout requirements at the property line.
      An additional cleanout is required every 100' and for each aggregate change of direction exceeding 135°.
      Oh! I'm sorry, you're not a licensed plumber so you wouldn't know this.
      Let it go dude. Drop it.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

        Originally posted by AssTyme View Post
        If the 1.25" fails then only is it time to dig.
        Not so fast. Although the 1.25 is a beast. Nothing can compete with a big jetter and proper nozzle combination.

        2 of the 3 jetting jobs I did today were ones that others failed at. Of course some would rather sell the big dig, myself I sell results and I prove it with no advertising and a dvd to show the before and after results.

        Both of these customers came from a job i did 6 months earlier on the street.

        Not a bad way to make a living. Spend nothing in advertising and buy the best equipment money can buy.

        Rick.

        Until a laser cutter comes out, a proper jetter with proper nozzle and hose is as good as it gets.
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

          I'm a fan of the 1500. In my area it is common to see whole house traps outside the house/just inside the cellar wall. The 1500 usually makes it through the trap. However with the added restriction of the trap bend it sometimes does not allow enough power to be transmitted to the problem. I will install clean outs after the trap, as needed. Our sewer authority mandates that all trap replacements be double hand hole style with an additional clean out afterwards, and only licensed plumbers can pull permits to add or replace.

          I wont address the size of your equipment Knowledgeable technicians will know the proper type and size to be used for the application.
          ~~

          ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

            Hey Rick,

            Out of curiosity, are there jobs that you have jetted but still had to dig anyway? I realize the jetter is probably the best cleaner there is but there must be some point at which the pipe has little structural integrity left?

            p.s. please shoot me a pm with your email. i need to ask you some things that arent fit for public consumption.
            ~~

            ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

              Roots will always find a way into clay joints. But clay is a great product as it stays clean, true and rust free. The jetter will cut the roots 100% out. What it wont do is align offsets.

              Once I get the line clean and assess the pipe, joints, condition and see their track record, its wait and see time. What amazes me are all the invoices I see from new customers that are so generic. Such as snake out line. No mention of machine cable, cutters, distance, findings, where line cleared. But then comes the big estimate for a repair or replacement.

              Once I get everything figured out, I type it into my invoice and now we have a great way to establish a baseline of the system and can use that to my advantage the next time it needs service.

              If the line is in poor condition, then I have it marked out and documented. I know foot by foot where the problems are and where the city connection is. Pretty simple to keep it up and running whenyou know where the roots are and where the city main starts.

              $370.00 once a year is all it takes to keep them flowing. Much cheaper than a replacement that fails down the road.

              Over the years, there's only been a few I couldn't get open. But those are jobs that were site unseen or pipes that were so far displaced that you end up in dirt. I would say way less than 1% end up being a dig. Sure some need a cleanout installed, but thats about it.

              Then you have people that never want another stoppage and will pay for a new sewer. Or don't know any better and sign on the dotted line of the first company that shows up.

              Rick.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

                Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                Roots will always find a way into clay joints. But clay is a great product as it stays clean, true and rust free. The jetter will cut the roots 100% out. What it wont do is align offsets.

                Once I get the line clean and assess the pipe, joints, condition and see their track record, its wait and see time. What amazes me are all the invoices I see from new customers that are so generic. Such as snake out line. No mention of machine cable, cutters, distance, findings, where line cleared. But then comes the big estimate for a repair or replacement.

                Once I get everything figured out, I type it into my invoice and now we have a great way to establish a baseline of the system and can use that to my advantage the next time it needs service.

                If the line is in poor condition, then I have it marked out and documented. I know foot by foot where the problems are and where the city connection is. Pretty simple to keep it up and running whenyou know where the roots are and where the city main starts.

                $370.00 once a year is all it takes to keep them flowing. Much cheaper than a replacement that fails down the road.

                Over the years, there's only been a few I couldn't get open. But those are jobs that were site unseen or pipes that were so far displaced that you end up in dirt. I would say way less than 1% end up being a dig. Sure some need a cleanout installed, but thats about it.

                Then you have people that never want another stoppage and will pay for a new sewer. Or don't know any better and sign on the dotted line of the first company that shows up.

                Rick.
                That's because we don't want our invoice to be used as ammo against us when they shop around.
                Buy cheap, buy twice.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

                  Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                  That's because we don't want our invoice to be used as ammo against us when they shop around.
                  Couldn't agree with you more.
                  I get these email requests all the time after someone's left the customer a video or very detailed estimate. They jump on line armed with too much info the contractor just left them.

                  Hello there,

                  Our sewer line is infested with roots and our sewer line inspector recommended replacing the sewer line.
                  The video of the inspection is located here. http://youtu.be/Wk362o3lj2k

                  Would it be possible for you to review the video and let us know what our possible options are and the costs associated with it.
                  1. Hydrojet only
                  2. Hydrojet + Reline
                  3. Hydrojet + Pipe Bursting
                  4. Is there any other economical and effective technique ?
                  The house is located in South Pasadena.

                  Please email me or call me anytime on my cell phone (310) 621 xxxx
                  Looking forward to your response,

                  Thanks
                  -Ranjeet

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

                    I get them too. But 9 times out of 10, the video they have is useless or doesn't exist.

                    I sell them a proper video and give them all the information they need to make the best decision. 9 times out of 10 all it needs is a proper cleaning or a cleanout installed.

                    I dont play smoke and mirrors. When I do an inspection, I use the best equipment and give them the honest truth about the line. Thats what they're paying me for and thats what I supply.

                    In the hundreds of videos ive watched of others, I can honestly say ive only seen 1 that was worth the price of the dvd disc. And that one impressed me so much that I wrote a post about him and tracked him down to give him a big praise.

                    When you go to the dr. To get an X ray or mri, you are under the impresson that you are getting the best diagnosis without having to go for another opinion. Not so in this business. Very very few are out to give the customer the real facts. All they want to give them is the biggest bill or estimate.

                    Do you really think I could be successful without any advertising if I give the customer a video that's useless? I perform inspections for other large plumbing co's, real estate co's, general contractors, city puplic work inspectors, even lawyers for expert work. Not to mention everyday homeowners. Do a good job and the work will follow. Nothing to hide when its done properly. Everything recorded and documented. The customer owns the dvd and can shop it around to get other opinions or estimates. That's why they hired me to inspect it in the first place.

                    The worst feeling is having to explain to the customer that the other 2 tapes they have are useless or inconclusive. But spending money on mine will save you money. And they usually do.

                    1 day the public will be smart enough to shop around or get good referrals from others before they get taken by ambulance chasers.

                    Rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

                      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                      What amazes me are all the invoices I see from new customers that are so generic. Such as snake out line. No mention of machine cable, cutters, distance, findings, where line cleared. But then comes the big estimate for a repair or replacement.
                      <I gave thanks for this>

                      I dont care if people shop around. They will anyway whether or not you write stuff down. My invoices are always detailed, if not for the customer but also for my bad memory. Something like:

                      Used large sewer snake. Flushed with water while snaking. Found blockage at 35 feet, root cutter head returned pinkie sized roots, stone, and mud. Snake catches at this area and one other approximately 9 feet beyond this area. There is a large maple tree above the pipe here. Continued to city tie in. Found no additional problems. This pipe is cast iron. Customer has declined (or accepted) video inspection. (video inspection verbage similar).

                      Options:

                      1- xxx $$
                      2- yyy $$
                      3- zzz $$




                      It really helps having this information for when the customer calls back someday and asks questions. All you need to know is on the invoice.
                      ~~

                      ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

                          I would like to see your snake cut through that root ball, looks like a good job to me, by the way...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

                            Pretty interesting thread.

                            I think many of us jump the gun thinking that Sierra or others are doing a disservice or somehow selling C.O.'s & lines because we've seen it be the M.O. of some national franchises along with astronomical quotes.

                            But we don't know what he really ran into. On top of that, we have no idea what he charged for the C.O. Could have been very reasonable. Not everyone is putting in $5,000.00 C.O.'s 3' in the ground.

                            I know I've ran into things where I have been able to get things moving with equipment above ground, but felt we better dig and see what's going on or put a C.O. in 'cause this is going to come up again and could be worse. And we can often put in a C.O. as quick as the time some would spend snaking at a "reasonable" cost.

                            Anyway, with the garbage sewer lines they have in California & the trees nearby where he installed the C.O., I think it was a good thing to have done provided he charged a "reasonable" fee.

                            On another note, I watched the video inspection he lists here. Pretty good inspection in my opinion. A couple of things that were surprising though:

                            1) How little was moving through the lateral city main. I've never looked into a city main that wasn't constantly moving about 1/3- of the pipe full. This one seemed almost dry.

                            2) How he states that clay pipe is "Good" and "won't react to things" and "has infinite life if maintained & no earthquakes..."

                            It's absolute garbage.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

                              Originally posted by sewer rat View Post
                              I would like to see your snake cut through that root ball, looks like a good job to me, by the way...
                              Everything takes time and effort. With my root cutter I've cut through 3" diameter hard maple roots, root balls 15 feet long, glass bottles, poly gas lines, raccoons, Sabres apparel, and 1/2" rebar.

                              Yes, it's hard on the heads, especially the steel and glass debris. But it can be done. Does it take longer than jetting? Absolutely yes, hours and hours. There are no smaller jetting companies around me, and the large ones are well out of reasonable range of the customer. There are also no relining or bursting companies here. I wish there were, I could make some good recommendations.
                              ~~

                              ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Caught a big one with the Spartan 300

                                Nothing wrong with a installing a cleanout, especially in that case with a massive set of roots at 100' away. I would have recommended that myself too.

                                But a .55" cable would not be my choice. I would either use my 1.25" cable or if I had time to sch. My jetter.

                                Drain cleaning is like fishing. When you know you're fishing for sharks, you don't use a trout pole. Based on the photo, the roots look to be attached at 1 or 2 spots to the joints. So although its a monster root mass, its only anchored at the joints. So cutting the anchor root will usually free up the mass.

                                Too many people get stuck or fail when fishing for sharks. "We need a bigger boat"

                                Rick.
                                phoebe it is

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