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  • K-60 had to sit down for this one

    Had to do an inspection with the camera but all the 32 4" area drains had not been maintained for years because the place is actually going to get torn down when the hospital next door finally buys the land. So a plumbing engineering firm hired me to clear the 32 drains to be able to camera them and give them an update on the already know bad conditions as the last survey was done over 5 years ago.
    Totally packed with roots,broken pipes,and soil and roof sand. Didn't want to jet because of the already know broken pipes (didn't want to lose my warthog or any tip actually) So with so many to do I powered thru them with my trusty General Maxi Rooter. God I love self feed when I actually have the chance to use it. The K-60 would have not been the choice for this job.
    Not done but got a good start on it.
    Seattle Drain Service

  • #2
    Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

    interesting cuda.

    i had 80 2'' elevated planter drains a couple months back that hadn't been touched since original installation 25 or so years ago.

    a drum machine would have been impossible. the k-60 was the best tool for the job.

    i was referred to this project by another plumber who is a spartan man

    the other 3 companies who bid the job, never stood a chance of clearing them with a drum.

    once i cleared the roots and dirt. i washed and jetted each line.

    what i like about the sectional is the total control of the cable and the ability to throttle the cable without worrying about the drum overrun.

    especially true when the roots start at the opening of the pipe and there is torque from the first inch in.

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

      Rick I got one for your little toy of a sewer machine
      300 4" C/O`s at a trailer park well over 2 miles of pipe there.
      I`ll be done in less then 2 days and you would still be on the first section using your silly little toy...
      I`ll be setting on a bucket letting the machine do all the work and you`ll have to pull and push cable all day long
      It sure is nice not having to man handle cable all the time
      Last edited by All Clear Sewer; 07-30-2008, 12:29 PM.
      http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

        The preference for the drum is the auto feed feature with so many to do, also they don't want the drains actually cleared (well) just to be able to camera the lines and if they work better than when I started that is just a plus but not needed or wanted. Also entry is thru the traps no cleanouts. Makes it tough to get the camera in with a star on it, I bent the star over and over had to stop using it, and now the camera is riding the bottom of the pipe. I don't know if the sani stack even connects to these drains yet I will use my locator today to find out, if it does I can jet these filthy things to get some flow.
        Seattle Drain Service

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        • #5
          Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

          Originally posted by All Clear Sewer View Post
          Rick I got one for your little toy of a sewer machine
          300 4" C/O`s at a trailer park well over 2 miles of pipe there.
          I`ll be done in less then 2 days and you would still be on the first section using your silly little toy...
          I`ll be setting on a bucket letting the machine do all the work and you`ll have to pull and push cable all day long
          It sure is nice not having to man handle cable all the time
          all clear, i would bring my jetter with 400' of 1/2'' hose and be done faster, cleaner and better.

          by the way, we never herd the results of your mis built toy jetter either.

          is it still a heap of wrong parts

          can't say i never warned you from day 1

          rick.

          now lets do the math

          300 4'' c/o in 2 days = 150 c/o a day. 150/8 hours = 18.75 c/o per hour or 1 c/o every 3 minutes 12 seconds. not accounting for moving your machine from c/o to c/o or plugging in a cord.

          i would say you underbid the job as 2 days is impossible.

          but i will suggest you get a hold of larry/ steam operator and have him help you

          he's the one that won the snaking contest with the 7500. he cleaned a 40' drain in just over 6 seconds. he's the only guy that can get it done.

          mark can hook you up with him as larry is his son in law

          hope i helped you and just saved your butt
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

            Hey Rick, I`m over 1/2 done wanta make a bet??????

            BTW.... the jetter is still a POS after a bunch of parts changing but we arnt done just yet. I gotta pull the head then I`ll know more on what`s gone wrong with that thing.
            It seem`s to be bypassing in the head for some reason???? I`m guessing you already knew that being that you are the sewer god and all
            Last edited by All Clear Sewer; 07-31-2008, 01:51 AM.
            http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

              Originally posted by Cuda View Post
              Had to do an inspection with the camera but all the 32 4" area drains had not been maintained for years because the place is actually going to get torn down when the hospital next door finally buys the land. So a plumbing engineering firm hired me to clear the 32 drains to be able to camera them and give them an update on the already know bad conditions as the last survey was done over 5 years ago.
              Totally packed with roots,broken pipes,and soil and roof sand. Didn't want to jet because of the already know broken pipes (didn't want to lose my warthog or any tip actually) So with so many to do I powered thru them with my trusty General Maxi Rooter. God I love self feed when I actually have the chance to use it. The K-60 would have not been the choice for this job.
              Not done but got a good start on it.

              I pulled one section of cable off my drum machine and had to do a drain call, main drain last night.

              I'm always using my legs to bring it up and down steps so even though it's awkward, I have it down to a science now.

              Instead of 4 inner core cables, 3 makes the machine much lighter. 77' total which includes the 2' leader.


              I took that down with the footstool on top the machine, my metal knit gloves, a roll of paper towels.



              One trip down. No second trip to the truck. Told the girls upstairs to start running water so I could get the floor drain to back up.


              Plugged in my machine, sat on my stool and forward the cable down the drain. Had to guide it once intially and the machine self-fed the cable the rest of the way.


              I answered the phone right after I started, kept it running going forward as I took the call.


              Around 68' the cable started to climb out of the drain and the water started to rock...........you and I know what was coming next. Put the phone down for a second, grabbed the cable with one hand and pushed it a little down the drain so it wouldn't climb and BAM!!!

              Here goes all the water, down the drain.

              Picked the phone back up, started talking as I through the machine into neutral so my attachment would sit where the obstruction was. I would move it back and forth a few feet each way to effectively make sure I got it open.


              A few more minutes and I throw it in hard reverse, cable still turning in a motion that is cleaning/cutting. At this point I'm getting tired talking to the fellow on the phone and 10 minutes in the basement, I wanna go home.

              Cable reels back into the drum, clean because I was having the girls upstairs flushing the line while I was retrieving and I loaded up my stool on top the machine, gloves and the paper towels I never used.


              I wasn't there 15 minutes and it could of been quicker if my lift gate on the truck wasn't so messed up.

              I know how heavy that K-60 is.......it's like carrying a 60 pound bag of concrete in one hand....carrying a cage with cable in the other is the only way to balance out your body.......if you're crazy enough to walk down a set of steps with both in tow.


              I was thinking about all the convos this forum has, opinions. I'm also a rare breed here being someone who started on sectionals, then went to drums for simplicity and safety from another injury. I believe when cavemen invented the wheel, it was merely to transfer weight with the least amount of inertia/effort needed to perform the task.

              My machine wasn't heavy but for one flight of steps, one front porch step.

              The rest of the time it rolled to its location with minimal effort. The machine did everything that I didn't want to do.....which is let that drain work me.


              I'll never have regrets from doing the switch from sectionals to drums; it's biding time for me in this profession giving the ability to continue without heavy physical labor tugging equipment around.

              Hell I was having time unthreading an expansion tank out of a water supply system today. Losing my upper body strength thanks to a torn rotator cuff last year.


              I don't need performance in the bedroom, give me a damn blue pill so I can be like I was when I was 18 and full of strength, injury free.

              For the record,


              I couldn't begin to tell you how many hours I spent having to clean those open wind cables of dirt/waste/hair/roots because I had to; it was a rental and they'd charge if not. Customers looked at me like I was insane doing that in their driveway, or in the yard.



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              • #8
                Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

                Dunbar, that was an excellent argument in defense on the superiority of drums. I can see exactly why you prefer drums now! I think its just different strokes for different folks. I still prefer the sectional, but for different reasons. Drums certainly have their advantages and their place in drain-cleaning....but so do sectionals.

                I still love the K-60 despite the disadvantages you mentioned, lever-action geared with 600 rpms and yet great portability. I have drilled into solid earth several feet with a K-60 trying to clear broken lines, its a beast!
                Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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                • #9
                  Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

                  Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                  now lets do the math

                  300 4'' c/o in 2 days = 150 c/o a day. 150/8 hours = 18.75 c/o per hour or 1 c/o every 3 minutes 12 seconds. not accounting for moving your machine from c/o to c/o or plugging in a cord.

                  i would say you underbid the job as 2 days is impossible.

                  but i will suggest you get a hold of larry/ steam operator and have him help you

                  he's the one that won the snaking contest with the 7500. he cleaned a 40' drain in just over 6 seconds. he's the only guy that can get it done.

                  mark can hook you up with him as larry is his son in law

                  hope i helped you and just saved your butt
                  Originally posted by All Clear Sewer View Post
                  Hey Rick, I`m over 1/2 done wanta make a bet??????

                  BTW.... the jetter is still a POS after a bunch of parts changing but we arnt done just yet. I gotta pull the head then I`ll know more on what`s gone wrong with that thing.
                  It seem`s to be bypassing in the head for some reason???? I`m guessing you already knew that being that you are the sewer god and all
                  i already knew that the jetter and specs you posted were completely over exaggerated. it took you 6 months to finally admit it that i was right

                  i guess i'll have to wait another 6 months to hear how you can clean 300 sewers at a rate of 3 minutes and 12 seconds. this being an 8 hour day with no stops and no other help or second man or machine.

                  but i guess it's my fault for not asking if you had help or a crew.

                  ya, i'll take you up on your bet that you didn't do 300 4'' sewers by yourself in 16 hours.

                  i think every drain guy would want a piece of this bet.

                  i'll even help you some more with your math.

                  the auto feed will feed at a max rate of 22' a minute. since you only have 3 minutes and 12 seconds, that means that each line is less than 33' from c/o to c/o.

                  why 33' well it's 22' per minute out and 22' in. so that's actually 11' per in and out. 3 minutes is 33' and 12 seconds to move from c/o to c/o.

                  no time for anything else. so please elaborate so i can do the math.

                  how many men?

                  how many machines?

                  what distance per c/o?

                  how many man hours so far?

                  how many c/o finished so far?

                  i'll do the math, you get some rest it's going to be a long day tomorrow

                  just looking out for you so you don't underbid the next job

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

                    What I didn't like about drums:

                    When that 3/4" cable on my General would make that "clank" noise and I knew that it had jumped on top of itself and that the cable would now not pull out of the drum, either by auto feed or by hand. The General was very unforgiving with its small drum and inaccessible front opening. The only solution was to either completely disassemble the drum or to get in there with a crowbar to try to pry the cable out from under itself.

                    That's why I like the look of the MyTana - that big open drum is easily accessible to watch the cable on their M81 sled machine.

                    Since I don't have a lift gate, I'd far rather lift the K-60 onto a truck. When I get a box truck, I'll have a ramp, which will be nice.

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                    • #11
                      Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

                      Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                      Dunbar, that was an excellent argument in defense on the superiority of drums. I can see exactly why you prefer drums now! I think its just different strokes for different folks. I still prefer the sectional, but for different reasons. Drums certainly have their advantages and their place in drain-cleaning....but so do sectionals.

                      I still love the K-60 despite the disadvantages you mentioned, lever-action geared with 600 rpms and yet great portability. I have drilled into solid earth several feet with a K-60 trying to clear broken lines, its a beast!

                      Oh I've never said the K-60 isn't a good machine, I'm just saying that I like to work as easy and do the least amount of effort to get the job done.

                      When I ran sectionals.....was always physically spent at the end of the day if I did 3 or more drain calls. Cleanup was so aggravating, especially if there was a small kink in the cable and would whip the motion coming out of the back side of the machine. That and I needed 3 hands to effectively run the equipment when I tried to do things in motion.

                      The norm was to hand feed the cable till you hit the bends to engage the machine or better yet, take it to the clog. Then, fire the machine up and get it open, pull all the cable back and slowly break it down in sections. If you did a nasty drain call, you'd spend more time cleaning cables than cleaning the drain.
                      Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                      • #12
                        Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

                        Originally posted by Herk View Post
                        What I didn't like about drums:

                        When that 3/4" cable on my General would make that "clank" noise and I knew that it had jumped on top of itself and that the cable would now not pull out of the drum, either by auto feed or by hand.

                        Had this happen for the first time with my spartan last year I believe......I posted it on this site.

                        The true reason it happened was because I was trying to get 4 cables in a 3 cable drum.

                        I like running 4 sections of cable because I don't care to go through the effort of hooking/unhooking those cables.
                        Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                        • #13
                          Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

                          My General had 2 3/4" x 50' cables. The first machine I ever used was a Burton Powersnake. I don't remember the cable size, but I do remember that even though it didn't have a powerfeed, it was extremely easy to use. I know it had smaller cables. (That was about 35 years ago when machines weren't so fancy.)

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                          • #14
                            Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

                            Well Rick it`s like this
                            I clean 125` every 30 minutes with the K 7500 X 2 = around 500` an hour
                            I clean 200` every 15 minutes with the jetter = 800` an hour
                            I would say the C/O to C/O is around 40` and they drop straight down into the main. I run out 125` and move to the C/O that`s closest to 125`. Some lines have mud in em and those get jetted.
                            I jetted about 1/2 a mile and it only took a little over 3 hours and that`s around 2600` of main line cleared
                            Now do your math
                            I don't think an old guy like you could keep up with the way we work around here.
                            Around these parts we work from sun up to sun down if there's a big job.
                            NOT just 8.0 hours......rotflmao
                            I`ve been known to get home at 8:am and take a bath and a short nap and get right back after it

                            Rick we do sewer installs that are 100` in 2 hours from start to finished. If it takes us 3 hours we feel we screwed off somewhere. Sewers around here start out at 2` and end up anywhere from 6` to 14` deep at the city mains.
                            BTW.. that`s with all 3 of us working on site
                            I`m sure your gonna say that`s not true either

                            Some day I`m just gonna have to send you a plain ticket and see if you can keep up with our crew for a day



                            Now as far as the jetter I haven't admitted crap just yet as I am smarter then that.
                            Running at 1/2 the max RPM`s I get the same 2000 psi I get at max rpm.
                            New`s Flash for ya Rick "IT`S BYPASSING in the Head of the pump. That's the only thing it can be. I can bog down the motor and not get anymore output then not bogging the motor.I have to pull the head off and check it out and I`ll bet you $100.00 there's a problem in the valves and seats.
                            Now will it make 3000 pis when fixed???
                            Well we`ll just have to wait and see
                            The pump MFG say`s it will

                            Time for me to go home and relax as it`s been a long day
                            Last edited by All Clear Sewer; 07-31-2008, 08:13 PM.
                            http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

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                            • #15
                              Re: K-60 had to sit down for this one

                              .....and then he clicked his heels and he was back in Kansas....
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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