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  • Got to use the new K-60 today

    Got my K-60 today unpacked it and headed over to a stopped up building sewer call that I got on saturday. Get their have the guy sign my work order and start bringing stuff down and on the second trip he tells me he will help me lift the machine over this lip before the basement steps. But hey I had the 40 lbs K60 no problem nothing to lug up and down steps! Any way I ran the spiral root saw down get 15' bam cable starts binding up pull it back nothing on the tool change the to the straight auger run it down same thing I worked it pretty hard pull it back and found grey clay I had to run it in reverse to get it back. Well about 8 months ago I cleaned a line like this with my bosses K1500 and a large auger so I am thinking I just need to try a little harder. Change to the spade cutter it was worse pulled it back and changed it to the funnel auger and guess what I passed right thru the 15' bad spot like it was not even there now I add a cable and goes right out now I am out 30' I am thinking great all the water ran out told the guy to turn on the L.T. Get the tool back clean figured I washed it off well not so fast look back in the clean out and filing up again. now I tried to run that auger down four more times and could not get any were with it and now every time I had to run it in reverse to get it unstuck I am guessing I just got lucky the one time and the pipe was separated and going right into the clay and boring a hole and hanging up. and the last time down I pulled back little stones showed the guy packed up my stuff printed the invoice up got paid cash and I told him I would need to come back and dig up the line measured it seven feet down going to need a box. To you guys that use jetters would that be another option to open this up or just a temp fix till he can get some real money for a replacement job, or will it not work at all if so what would you use for a 4" to 6" building sewer what G.P.M. p.s.i etc. Maybe I can rent one and open it up for the guy thanks guys Oh yea and the K-60 kicks A$$ just not clay and separated pipes.
    Last edited by Clipper City Plumber; 03-23-2010, 06:05 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

    Clipper, Without a camera you are just guessing as to what is wrong (I'm under the impression that this line is under concrete or really deep if it is not and it is just a simple dig-up disreguard )...

    It sounds like you have FUBAR line and even a jetting will be a band-aid.

    See about renting or borrowing a camera (Even if you need to sub the camera work out) and see what is going on with the line (If you can get it to pop again).

    The K-60 is a great machine mine is riding backup to my K-1500 for the next few weeks as my big machine was feeling neglected due to lack of use...

    Congrats on the K-60 it is a great machine!

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    • #3
      Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

      This line is about 7' deep and the 1st 15' is under a concrete walk way his yard is only about ten feet wide I could barely fit the truck up the alley don't know were all that dirt would go or how easy a box would be to get in their to hold the ditch walls? I am thinking leave that 1st ten feet in and install two clean outs at that spot and replace from their out. Or maybe just refer to a guy who can do trench less and dig one hole at the end of the yard? What size spiral roots saw do you guys use?

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      • #4
        Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

        Originally posted by Clipper City Plumber View Post
        This line is about 7' deep and the 1st 15' is under a concrete walk way his yard is only about ten feet wide I could barely fit the truck up the alley don't know were all that dirt would go or how easy a box would be to get in their to hold the ditch walls? I am thinking leave that 1st ten feet in and install two clean outs at that spot and replace from their out. Or maybe just refer to a guy who can do trench less and dig one hole at the end of the yard? What size spiral roots saw do you guys use?

        Sounds like a tuff Dig, Verify what is wrong with the line via camera for the owner and don't be afraid to give the job away if it is bigger then you... ( I'm a one man show and give work to a friend who owns a larger shop)

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        • #5
          Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

          Well the phone aint ringing so I could spend some time replacing it. For me it is just the logistics and he is not the owner and has to look for money. I was thinking about the jetter approach you know if it's possible to wash out all this clay wouldn't paper and solids catch on the separation and how else would clay and stones get in? thats why I think it is a separation.

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          • #6
            Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

            Originally posted by Clipper City Plumber View Post
            Well the phone aint ringing so I could spend some time replacing it. For me it is just the logistics and he is not the owner and has to look for money. I was thinking about the jetter approach you know if it's possible to wash out all this clay wouldn't paper and solids catch on the separation and how else would clay and stones get in? thats why I think it is a separation.

            Seperation is one way... Bad offset is another, open crack is another, partial collapse is another, Roots is another, gas or electric line drilled through the sewer line is another, lots of possible causes...

            Just because it cleaned out last time does not mean it will clean again, that being said the K60 is a great machine but the K1500 is what cleared it the last time...

            Only right way to do the job is to see what is wrong and deal with it ( if the money is there to rent a jetter you can get a camera) but if you just want to jet it and hope for the best go for it, but I would ask what makes you think a jetter will give a different result then the K-60 in your situation...

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            • #7
              Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

              definitely need to camera the line before you commit to an expensive job for the customer. either there's a serious problem with the line, or you're going to make a serious wrong decision

              you have no past track record there to go by.

              rick.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

                definitely camera the line if possible. sometimes it's nit an option though. too much dark water, etc. of you can clear in again of it the water recedes on it's own then you maybe see what'soing on

                good luck

                steve
                In the never ending struggle to keep the water flowing.... The Poo Poo Cowboy rides again!!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

                  here is what I don't get guys if I am pulling back clay and small stones why would you hold back from digging it up? I was always taught if you pull back roots you will most likely be able to pull em out and go on your way tell they grow back , if you pull back paper or soft stoppage maybe something wrong bad bend etc test line run as much water as you can to test flow and give camera as option to investigate cause or hope for the best and if it happens again take your camera as the customer may want to use it now since this is the second time around maybe a dip in line or bad bend , but if you pull back mud or rocks measure your sections pack it up and dig it up and if the camera is use at this point you are using it to locate "spot" or just were the line exits the building. When you pull these objects back and get stuck to the point were you have to reverse the cable I was taught that the line was done. So reeducate on were you draw the line and cut straight to digging or investigate maybe I have been just taught how to sell so teach on.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

                    Some would say selling a complicated dig job without looking especially after only hitting it with a small machine is dishonest...

                    Part of our job is to provide educated and detailed diagnosis and choices to the customer...
                    Anyone can stick a cable in a line and say "The line needs to be replaced" as a Pro I pride myself on providing the customer with the most information possible, this same information makes my job easier as well

                    In the end you may not be able to get a good look at the problem it happens, at this point you gotta go with your gut and hope for no surprises when you open it up...

                    If you can get a camera in you may see a prime candidate for a pipepatch and may be able to save your customer some $$$$.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

                      picture a doctor that wants to operate without an x ray, ultra sound, mri, or whatever available test are at their disposal.

                      were not talking just trying an aspirin. this is a big expensive job. the camera will save money either way you look at it. it will tell you it's either snake-able, jet-able, or pin point where to dig and how deep it is.

                      camera the line and know your next step

                      rick.
                      phoebe it is

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

                        Originally posted by Clipper City Plumber View Post
                        here is what I don't get guys if I am pulling back clay and small stones why would you hold back from digging it up? I was always taught if you pull back roots you will most likely be able to pull em out and go on your way tell they grow back , if you pull back paper or soft stoppage maybe something wrong bad bend etc test line run as much water as you can to test flow and give camera as option to investigate cause or hope for the best and if it happens again take your camera as the customer may want to use it now since this is the second time around maybe a dip in line or bad bend , but if you pull back mud or rocks measure your sections pack it up and dig it up and if the camera is use at this point you are using it to locate "spot" or just were the line exits the building. When you pull these objects back and get stuck to the point were you have to reverse the cable I was taught that the line was done. So reeducate on were you draw the line and cut straight to digging or investigate maybe I have been just taught how to sell so teach on.
                        You're right if you pull back mud it's pretty well broke, it doesn't matter why or exactly how it's broke, if you're digging into mud it's broke, you don't need a camera to tell you that.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

                          Originally posted by MasterplumberKC View Post
                          You're right if you pull back mud it's pretty well broke, it doesn't matter why or exactly how it's broke, if you're digging into mud it's broke, you don't need a camera to tell you that.
                          Is it "Pretty Well Broke" or is it for sure broke? Where is it broke, How far is the damage, what is the nature of the damage? What type of pipe is it? Has their been any repairs on the line in the past?

                          OR

                          Fingers crossed and start digging.


                          If the object is to sell a dig no matter what then let your conscience be your guide.
                          I pride myself on providing my customers with the most information possible to make an informed decision, It's a win win situation for the customer and myself

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

                            Hey if I had a camera on my truck I would have broken it out to see what was up with the drain I ask you guys this stuff because you all have cameras and jetters and have had them and some of you have been doing plumbing for as long as I have been alive! So before I get my self in more debt haha with cameras and jetters which I have looked into last week as far as renting goes I just wanted opinions which is what I got and I thank you guys and I am not in to selling needless work I like to find the problem. How ever to keep you up to date the customer does not own the house and has not called me to say he has found any money to do any thing else and I can't work for free right so I just waiting to hear from him and don't think I will get a call back. I also got a call for a main drain this morning told the woman $45 call out fee $80 1st hour $40 rental fee plus parts . And the response I got was WOW $165 is too much. I don't know about the T&M maybe it is just how I present it to the customer when I get the call or I am getting cheep people?I am filling out forms to do installs for Lowes and trying to get ahold of these home warranty companies to try to get some work good old Bickford has to be laughing now because the $1900 ads are keeping so busy I have to get work from Lowes to pay for the ads man this is driving me crazy at least I can vent to some other plumbers Thanks for putting up with me and thanks for the input!!!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Got to use the new K-60 today

                              clipper, lets put it into perspective that's not plumbing, but you and the customer can relate to

                              lets say this is a medical issue. a customer/ patient comes into your office and isn't sure if they broke their leg you're a sole proprietor and don't own an x-ray machine. do you assume it's broken, or sprained. does it need just ice or a cast? or do you send the patient out to get x-rays and then you can properly diagnose the leg?

                              get my point

                              the sewer might have nothing more than a common root stoppage with debris. the line is draining right now. the emergency is gone and now the customer needs the line x-rayed to know the condition. do you operate in the blind? or do you x-ray to see the condition. does the sewer really need surgery? and if it really does do you dig blindly or do you camera to pin point the exact location and depth

                              the medical professional will x-ray before they start cutting

                              i feel that we are sewer doctors and should approach this work as any medical professional should

                              dr rick
                              phoebe it is

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