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  • Cold water bond

    I have a question.

    Too many architects are not drawing in the cold water bonds.

    In the new commercial building we just plumbed I had to provide a cold water line in the electrical room for the 600 amp. panel as a change order.

    Could you tell me please how the N.E.C. states the requirements for what size of pipe and distance from meter for a cold water bond.

    I fully understand the scope on single family homes,Thanks

    At what Amperage would I need to increase my copper pipe size from 1/2 to 3/4

    The reason I ask is because the Electrician asked for a 3/4 copper line with schedule 80 brass into eqpmt rm.Inspector said 1/2 would have been sufficient no brass needed.

    Oh,and the electrician wanted the threads on the brass soldered.Not because I could not,it was just starting to become overkill.

    This is going to happen again in the near future,so I would like to be able to get the correct piping to the correct location and save the future building owner some money.

    Thank-you,Adam

  • #2
    Re: Cold water bond

    You might want to ask this Q on Mike Holt's forum.

    http://www.mikeholt.com/index.php?id=homegeneral

    We seem to have lost our sparky contingent here over the last few months.
    ---------------
    Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
    ---------------
    “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
    ---------
    "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
    ---------
    sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Cold water bond

      adam, when i was doing large buildings, we had to run the copper to the large panels and if it was dead ended, we needed to provide a valve or hose bibb to allow for the line to be full of water and not trapped air.

      rick.
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Cold water bond

        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
        adam, when i was doing large buildings, we had to run the copper to the large panels and if it was dead ended, we needed to provide a valve or hose bibb to allow for the line to be full of water and not trapped air.

        rick.
        Rick,Wow,Good thought.I can see the copper could fail with no water to assist in the conductivity.

        Another thought.That does not sound safe to me.The possibility of standing water in a electrical room with a 600 AMP. panel.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Cold water bond

          Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
          You might want to ask this Q on Mike Holt's forum.

          http://www.mikeholt.com/index.php?id=homegeneral

          We seem to have lost our sparky contingent here over the last few months.
          Bob,
          I honestly wonder if it has anything to do with how I have posted my perceptions of some of the electricians in my area.I hope not

          I have a network of informative people I work with in the business,including other electricians out here whom I respect.

          I was doing a little bit of fishing on the forum to see what resources we had here.Also trying to generate some crosstalk between myself and whatever we got.

          I have Holt's address from when I saved it when you gave it to the forum on a prior thread.

          Probably quicker to make a couple of phone calls than to sign on Holt.

          Thank-you BOB

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Cold water bond

            Since when do plumbers have bring pipes to the electrician?

            Electricians here typically bring their bond to the water main.

            Who is Mike Holt? some sparky guru?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Cold water bond

              Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
              Since when do plumbers have bring pipes to the electrician?

              Electricians here typically bring their bond to the water main.

              Who is Mike Holt? some sparky guru?
              Check out the website BOB posted earlier in this thread CRACK.

              You are correct on the electrician running his bond to the nearest cold water supply.

              Under some conditions it's cheaper to get the plumber to run less expensive pipe as compared to a thick guage wire.In this case the electritian would have to run 2 ott(sp) through conduit to accessible area for ground clamp on my pipe.

              Adam

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Cold water bond

                Maybe this is Cal code. Where I am you run a heavy copper conductor (wire) to the point where the water main enters the building and install a ground clamp just inside the wall before any valve or other device. That wire then runs to the grounding bar of the main disconnect be it a molded case enclosed circuit breaker or an enclosed fused safety switch. If there are more than one disconnect then you connect the ground bars together. What you never want is to have a pipe with water in it running through the building as the main ground. As someone stated before that could lead to a small steam explosion and 1/2 or 3/4 copper type M pipe is no match for a 0 or 00 gauge copper wire. Even in houses anymore they connect to right at the entrance point of the water service and right at the wall. If you do not have heavy galv or brass pipe then the normal is to use several grounding rods. The same conductor is used to bond (connect) them together and then the other end is conneted to the grounding bar at the electrical service entrance.

                This matter should be discussed with a Master Electrician in your area. I'm not such and am also far far away over on the east side.

                In may older buildings and houses things were NOT done to today's code.
                Last edited by Woussko; 08-18-2007, 03:20 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Cold water bond

                  what is a cold water bond?
                  Buy cheap, buy twice.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Cold water bond

                    Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                    what is a cold water bond?
                    It's a ground from the electrical panel to the potable cold water system.
                    Another grounding source other than the ufer and grounding rod applications.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Cold water bond

                      You know Adam, I have something to add to this, today I was having a conversation with the electrician, he said the new code says that the electrician has to now run a ground to where the water service enters, at the main, entering the house, the inspector wants to see it there. (I asked him why he has to run it so far and not just under the house to the main water line)

                      He was complaining because most panels are at the back of the house and now he must run it to the front in most cases
                      sigpic

                      Robert

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Cold water bond

                        We can't water pipe within 36" of a breaker box.
                        I guess maybe Adams situation was unusual, here the electricians ground at the cold main also.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Cold water bond

                          FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES THESE THINGS ARE NOT AN ISSUE AS THE ELECTRICIAN CAN EASILY RUN A#10 BARE WIRE ANYWHERE.

                          Sorry about that,caps lock

                          It would be unreasonable to have sparky run 80' of 00 to the water service location.

                          the cold water bond is commonly provided for by the plumbers on the larger amp panels.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Cold water bond

                            Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                            FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES THESE THINGS ARE NOT AN ISSUE AS THE ELECTRICIAN CAN EASILY RUN A#10 BARE WIRE ANYWHERE.

                            Sorry about that,caps lock

                            It would be unreasonable to have sparky run 80' of 00 to the water service location.

                            the cold water bond is commonly provided for by the plumbers on the larger amp panels.

                            geeze, first "sparky", then "pebble in the ditch" what is a guy to think thanks for the info on the bondage Adam
                            sigpic

                            Robert

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Cold water bond

                              In residential, many areas require ground rods plus cold water bond because if there is ever a sever in the cold water bond, your panel no longer has a sufficient ground bond. Also, with ground rod/ground rods, you need to have ZERO potential between them in order to have a sufficient and safe ground to work with. Getting zero potential is not always possible since today's overly dry ground (at least around here) does not provide it. Jim Don

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